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Re: Need one more draft




On 1/30/07, Tim Bray <Tim.Bray@xxxxxxx> wrote:

Paul and I have been having a dialog with Lisa Dusseault, our Area
Director, about launching IETF last call for the APP.  We had a
little difficulty communicating but eventually came to understand
each other.

Here's the problem she saw, as a veteran of considerable network-
protocol work.  Our current draft's introduction (which is really
short) says "The protocol supports the creation of arbitrary Web
resources..."  Lisa came back, saying, essentially, "No it doesn't.
You're hardly constraining the server at all.  Don't you need to
cover all the rest of the possible HTTP operations and write rules
for all the corner cases?"  She had (reasonably) read the word
"arbitrary" as suggesting fine-grained client control over the
server, which is *not* what APP (nor blog-authoring in general) is
about.  So, we need to say that.

Lisa and I hashed out some language in the introduction to make it
clear what we're trying to do here.  Paul and I both believe this
would add value to the draft.  So here's what we'd like the WG to
agree to:

1. Do a protocol-13 draft, including the text below in the
introduction, and
2. Fix the bugs and editorial nits reported against protocol-12, and
3. Incorporate the latest Snell typeparam draft, which seems to have
good support.

If we do this, I think we can count on the speedy launching of an
IETF last call, which quite likely will turn up other things we've
missed, but has a reasonable probability of getting APP 1.0 delivered
to the world in a sane timeframe.  Then we can all go home.

Here's the proposed text for the Introduction:

======================================================
Publishing systems may choose to accept, reject, delay, moderate,
censor, reformat, translate, relocate or recategorize the content
submitted to them.  Only some of these choices are immediately
relayed back to the client in responses to client requests; other
choices may only become apparent later, in the feed or published
entries.

Clients cannot expect to publish and edit resources in an entirely
predictable manner.  The same series of POST requests to two
different publishing sites can result in a very different series of
HTTP responses, different resulting feeds and even different entry
contents.

As a result of this model, client software has to be written flexibly
to accept whatever the server decides are the results of its
submissions.  Generally, any server response or server content
modification not explicitly forbidden by this specification or HTTP
is therefore allowed.

I think you forgot: "WARNING: Larks' Vomit"

On a serious note:

  """
  Clients cannot expect to publish and edit resources in an entirely
  predictable manner.
  """

That's just argumentative. The rest of the paragraph stands
on its w/o that sentence. I'd like to see it dropped.

  """
  Generally, any server response or server content
  modification not explicitly forbidden by this specification or HTTP
  is therefore allowed.
  """

That's more vague and open to interpretation than
the text from the second paragraph of Section 4:

  """
The Atom Protocol imposes few restrictions on the actions of servers.
Unless a constraint is specified here, servers can be expected to vary
in behavior, in particular around the manipulation of Atom Entries
sent by clients. For example this specification only defines the
expected behavior of Collections with respect to GET and POST, but
this does not imply that PUT, DELETE, PROPPATCH and others are
forbidden on Collection resources - only that this specification does
not define what the servers response would be to those methods.
Similarly while some HTTP status codes are mentioned explicitly,
clients should be prepared to handle any valid status code from a
server.
  """

  -joe

--
Joe Gregorio        http://bitworking.org