Re: meta-issue: arbitrary relationships required?

[Danny Ayers <danny.ayers@xxxxxxxxx>]

Sorry, forgot the links:

BrownSauce:
http://jena.hpl.hp.com:3030/brownsauce/index.html

Source:
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v431/n7009/rss.rdf
Resource:
http://dx.doi.org/10.1038/431613a

Source:
http://www.wasab.dk/morten/blog/feed/rdf
Resource:
http://www.wasab.dk/morten/blog/archives/2004/09/30/aggregating-and-archiving-rss-items


On Sun, 10 Oct 2004 00:00:50 +0200, Danny Ayers <danny.ayers@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> On Sat, 09 Oct 2004 15:10:37 -0400, Robert Sayre <mint@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > Danny Ayers wrote:
> >
> > > Producers and consumers that support RSS
> > > 1.0's model can uniformly interpret that information. A system
> > > migrated to Atom without support of this kind would lose a significant
> > > facility.
> > >
> >
> > The kicker here is that consumers don't support RSS1.0's model because
> > it isn't helpful. The tricky part of supporting an extension is writing
> > the handler.
> 
> Several syndication-oriented consumers do support RSS 1.0's model, and
> all RDF tools (that support the standard interchange format) support
> RSS 1.0. There are lots of them (see
> http://www.ilrt.bris.ac.uk/discovery/rdf/resources/#sec-tools).
> 
> The model can be extremely useful, especially when you want to mix
> data from different domains. Urchin is a pretty good example:
> http://urchin.sourceforge.net/docs/Design.html
> 
> Matt Biddulph has some good RSS+FOAF material:
> http://www.hackdiary.com/archives/000020.html
> http://www.hackdiary.com/projects/chumpologica/
> 
> > Show me an example of a client doing something useful with the
> > extensions in those two feeds.
> 
> Ok, try BrownSauce - it's not exactly a wonderful visualization (it's
> designed for displaying completely arbitrary data), but it'll do for
> demonstration purpose. Links below.
> 
> One of the displayed lines from the rss:item in the Nature feed is:
> Source: Nature 431, 613 (2004)
> 
> Part of the display of the rss:item from Morten's feed is:
> # topic:
>     * RSS
>     * Title: RSS
>     * page: RSS
> 
> Then, tell me why it would be impossible
> > or harder in Atom.
> 
> The displays are based on a interpretation of the data based on the
> semantics encoded in RDF/XML, specifically how a relationship defined
> in an external namespace is associated between a resource in the RSS
> feed and other data/resources. Atom has no such mechanism. The tool is
> rendering the data consistently across all (unknown) relationships,
> potentially expressed in different syntax styles, but following the
> rules of RSS 1.0. Can't be done in Atom.
> 
> I know it's not exactly a mindblowing display, I'll see what I can
> find with a bit more glitz. (Using the chumpalogica to aggregate from
> the feeds and then doing a FOAF-based query on the data in Redland
> might be nice...) But it does what you asked.
> 
> <rambling-opinion>
> There seems to be a tendency around these parts to take a very narrow
> view of what a tool that uses syndication formats should be like. This
> being based on the implementations that have appeared in the last year
> or so - ok, not too surprising considering desktop aggregators have
> only been around for maybe 3 years.  But all due respect to their
> developers, but the current versions of BlogLines and RssBandit might
> be very useful but they aren't the end of the story, they're the
> beginning.
> 
> Kind of reminds me of when, years back, my mother got herself an
> Amstrad Word Processor. Took me ages to convince her it was a
> computer.
> </rambling-opinion>
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> Danny.
> 
> --
> 
> http://dannyayers.com
> 


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