RE: EDI over http?

[Dave Darnell <dave_d@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Rik,

What are the plans for EDIINT as far as meetings.  Rik, do you have an
agenda for the Munich IETF August 11-15?  Will HTTP be the main focus for
EDIINT at this meeting?

Regards,
Dave

At 11:50 AM 6/19/97 -0500, Rik Drummond wrote:
>This conversation seems to be a good kickoff for our next effort in this
wg. We so far have the requirements document and the secure smtp based edi
document ready to submit to the iesg. Our next effort is real time edi. The
issue is -- bob, Carl and Lincoln have  touched on these in the last few
memos -- 1) we need real time edi not smtp and 2) http is not and efficient
means to do this for high activity, large files. What are our options?
>
>Let review the discussion we had on this late last year and our resultant
requirement document. Lincoln, if you still have the copy of our real time
requirement document the wg did last year and you  edited please distribute
to the lists.
>
>I believe after you review the document, you will see we have 90%+
identified. 
>
>Lets review the document, if it is not sufficient modify, but lets not
restart the discussion from scratch.
>
>Later, Rik
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From:	Robert Moskowitz [SMTP:rgm3@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
>Sent:	Tuesday, June 17, 1997 6:29 PM
>To:	Jim Radosevich; Matthew James Gering; IETF-EDI@SMTP {ietf-ediint@xxxxxxx}
>Subject:	Re: EDI over http?
>
>At 01:07 PM 6/17/97 -0700, Matthew James Gering wrote:
>
>Ah, here it is.  Your messages came in reverse order to me for some reason...
>
>>Okay, I have evidently missed the obvious then -- what are the obvious
>>advantages.
>>
>>I can think of two advantages:
>>
>>* Real-Time response
>>I question the necessity of this. Could someone please elaborate.
>
>This debate goes on for some time.  But an HTTP exchange can be done in two
>flows, throw the ASN to one end in one PUT (HTTP File Upload) and ack comes
>back in the reply.  When I only have 3 minutes to turn around an ASN and 1
>minute is eaten up by IMS, I care about how chatty SMTP is.
>
>>* Session encryption
>>has security advantages over document encryption only.
>
>You need them both.  Or at least doc sig and session or network encrypt.
>Yes someone has specified SSL for SMTP, but then the EDI SMTP model is
>based on many SMTP MTAs so here SSL would not be end to end like HTTPS.
>
>>And following disadvantages:
>>
>>* Fault Taulerance
>>through the use of multiple MX records, it handles transmission to hosts
>>that are not immediately available, routing around network outages and
>>unreachable hosts, etc, etc.
>
>An advantage, but for real time, if my hosts are not reachable, I've got
>bigger problems.
>
>>* Gateways
>>SMTP can be gatewayed through Firewalls, gatewayed to other networks and/or
>>converted to other transport mechanisms such as X.400, etc..
>
>HTTP can traverse firewalls also.   Do I care about X.400?  Well maybe
OFTP...
>
>>* Congestion
>>SMTP is friendlier on the network than HTTP.
>
>It is?  For this usage?  The studies I saw were based on all of those
>little HTTP connections.  Those are not the case here.
>
>>* Reliability
>>Denial of Service (DoS) attacks against web servers are far too trivial.
>
>And not for SMTP?  Well they are different ones, but I've seen many an
>SMTP's /tmp or /var/mail fill up.
>
>>* Efficiency
>>SMTP is a much more efficient protocol than HTTP, both in file transfer and
>>server load.
>
>SMTP is chatty, HTTP is not.  There are multi-threaded HTTPs out now, is
>SENDMAIL?
>
>One very important advantage of HTTP is it is basically a 2-phase
>transaction, where as SMTP is a 1-phase.  The work to coordinate the
>response to an EDI over SMTP is not needed over HTTP.  They occur on the
>same TCP connection.
>
>Another important advantage is third party participation.  Via chained
>URLs, I can have, say a bank, involved in the EDI between two partners.  I
>suppose that bang paths could do the same thing.
>
>got to run.  Have a good night!
>
>
>
>
>Robert Moskowitz
>Chrysler Corporation
>(810) 758-8212
>
>
>
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