Re: Timestamping

[chris@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Chris Davenport)]

Hold on a minute, am I missing something here?

I completely agree that having a timestamp is very important, but
ALL email already has a Date: field in the RFC822 header which IMHO
would be acceptable for most (non-critical) purposes.

For critical applications, such as Pete Yeatrakas' financial one,
the important point is that the timestamp cannot be forged or
tampered with and so becomes the instrument of Rik Drummonds'
"non-repudiation of submission".

To achieve this the timestamp must come from a trusted source,
a Time Stamping Authority (TSA) that will sign/encrypt the
TimeStampToken (TST).  I've just read the PKIX draft :-).
The TST can be included as (yet another) MIME object within the
overall EDIINT message.

My point is that to make the inclusion of TST's mandatory would
add a whole extra layer of complexity to sending an EDIINT message
which would be unnecessary for the majority of users.

By all means include a reference to the PKIX work and show
how a TST could be included within an EDIINT message, but please
don't make it mandatory.  I don't think the EDIINT group need
do more than that.  Am I wrong?

Regards,

Chris.

>
>>From my point of view (non technical), it is just a sound business
>(best) practice, especially if there are any disagreements between
>trading partners.  In the Automated Clearing House, the financial
>community depends on something called settlement date (contained in the
>file format), which while 24 hours long, is the key to when funds are
>transfered, the key to the deadlines for submitting adjustments, and
>tied to the obligations of the FI to it's customer, whether consumer or
>corporate.  That date is MANDATORY, and similar to  Marc's ABSOLUTE
>notion.  Financial institutions repackage EDI information along with the
>funds transfer, so you can see that in the ACH world, the notion of
>timestamping is absolutely critical.
>Best regards,
>Pete Yeatrakas
>
>Rik Drummond wrote:
>> 
>> Thanks Marc...... I assume the reason for time-stamping is "non-repudiation of submission" and ot
>> 
>> Regards, Rik
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From:   Marc Blanchet [SMTP:Marc.Blanchet@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
>> Sent:   Wednesday, January 21, 1998 5:21 PM
>> To:     Rik Drummond; 'Werner, James K'; 'ietf-ediint@xxxxxxx'
>> Subject:        Timestamping
>> 
>> In the PKIX group, there is a draft on time stamping.
>> (ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-pkix-ipki5tsp-00.txt)
>> I was involved in the early work on it. This draft can give at least some
>> thoughts.  I would be interested in participating in the effort.
>> 
>> Regards, Marc.
>> 
>> >Then get involved and make it happen. How do you see this happening?  What
>> would the process be and who would be involved?
>> >
>> >Regards, Rik
>> >
>> >-----Original Message-----
>> >From:  Werner, James K [SMTP:James.Werner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
>> >Sent:  Wednesday, January 21, 1998 1:25 PM
>> >To:    'ietf-ediint@xxxxxxx'
>> >Subject:       RE: EDIINT WG Minutes fo the IETF Dec 98 Meeting
>> >
>> >imho, the "possible" need to timestamp EDI "transactions" is a complete
>> >misstatement: timestamping is an *absolute* repeat *ABSOLUTE* (volume
>> >added for emphasis) requirment - no waffling, no qualifications, no
>> >'divide and conquer' strategies - timestamping is a must!.
>> >
>> >
>> >James K. Werner
>> >The Boeing Company
>> >PO Box 3707, #MS 6C-FH
>> >Seattle, Wa. 98124-2207
>> >phone: (425)237-6274  fax: (425)237-8510
>> >email: james.werner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> 
>> -----------------------------------------------------------
>> Marc Blanchet                   | Marc.Blanchet@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Viagenie inc.                   | http://www.viagenie.qc.ca
>> 3107 des hotels         | tel.: 418-656-9254
>> Ste-Foy, Quebec         | fax.: 418-656-0183
>> Canada, G1W 4W5         | radio: VA2-JAZ
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> pgp: 57 86 A6 83 D3 A8 58 32 F7 0A BB BD 5F B2 4B A7
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> Auteur du livre TCP/IP Simplifie, Editions Logiques, 1997
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>
-- 
Chris Davenport              chris@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Davros Computer Systems