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RE: [ebxml-msg] RE: AS3?....
- To: "'Ralph Berwanger'" <rberwanger@xxxxxxxxxx>, "Ahmed, Zahid" <zahid.ahmed@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, "'Greg Vesper'" <gvesper@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, "'David Fischer'" <david@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, "'Jeff Lightcap'" <JLightcap@xxxxxxxx>, "'ietf-ediint@xxxxxxx'" <ietf-ediint@xxxxxxx>
- Subject: RE: [ebxml-msg] RE: AS3?....
- From: "Ahmed, Zahid" <zahid.ahmed@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 16:22:39 -0800
- Cc: "'Dave Bennett'" <dbennett@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, "'ebxml-msg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx'" <ebxml-msg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, "'ebxml-dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx'" <ebxml-dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, "'Bill Morgan'" <bmorgan@xxxxxxxxxx>
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Yes, agreed that is ebXML transport neutral.
I question how viable FTP really is w.r.t. firewall, DMZ/network,
and message authentication policies of many companies
though for ebXML type of transport option.
From: Ralph Berwanger [mailto:rberwanger@xxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 3:00 PM
To: Ahmed, Zahid; Greg Vesper; David Fischer; Jeff Lightcap;
Cc: Dave Bennett; ebxml-msg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; ebxml-dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx;
Subject: RE: [ebxml-msg] RE: AS3?....
I think that we have managed to attribute a need for ebXML that simply
cannot be implied. The ebXML Message Services were defined apart from any
transport protocol. It would be wrong to attempt to justify a need for AS?
standards based on ebXML. I am not sure there is a valid argument for
pursuing an AS2-like solution for FTP. I am sure that anyone who tries to
use ebXML as the justification will be embarassed to know that ebXML Message
Service Specification will not promote the argument. The specification is
very clear, it states: The ebXML architecture requires that the ebXML
Message Service protocol be capable of being carried over any available
communications protocol. Therefore, this document does not mandate use of a
specific communications protocol.
I suggest that a different justification be crafted before this discussion
goes any further.
From: Ahmed, Zahid [mailto:zahid.ahmed@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 4:45 PM
To: 'Greg Vesper'; David Fischer; Jeff Lightcap; ietf-ediint@xxxxxxx
Cc: Dave Bennett; ebxml-msg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; ebxml-dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [ebxml-msg] RE: AS3?....
Well, if we entertain the idea of support for FTP in future versions of
we will need to support certainly transport level security of ebXML message
over FTP. There are secure FTP impls out there. Reliable message delivery
would be another aspect to fact in w.r.t. FTP. Non-repudiation would be
another aspect. Ofcourse, the SOAP message enveloping scheme of
ebXML may be enhanced to provide some transport independent
authenticatioin scheme in the future.
From: Greg Vesper [mailto:gvesper@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 12:18 PM
To: David Fischer; Jeff Lightcap; ietf-ediint@xxxxxxx
Cc: Dave Bennett
Subject: RE: AS3?....
I strongly suggest we take up the issue of demand. Cyclone has been
servicing market demand for this capability for several years in production
hardened environments and would be happy to argue in favor of FTP as a valid
transport for EDIINT.
Alternatively, the role of FTP within the ebXML standard could be elevated
to achieve the same desired functionality with the advantage of what ebXML
brings to the table.
Either way, the absence of FTP as a transport for secure B2B messaging is an
obvious hole. FTP is a valid transport with an enormous amount of existing
infrastructure - it ought to be elevated in the appropriate standards, be it
EDIINT, ebXML, or both.
I'm happy to actively participate in any initiatives in this regard.
Director, Product Management
[mailto:owner-ietf-ediint@xxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of David Fischer
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 12:38 PM
To: Jeff Lightcap; ietf-ediint@xxxxxxx
Subject: RE: AS3?....
There is no proposed AS3 standard. On several occasions, vendor's have
requested an AS3 standard based upon FTP. Thus far, we have not seen enough
end-user demand to proceed with this, but if such demand becomes evident, we
[mailto:owner-ietf-ediint@xxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Jeff Lightcap
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 12:47 PM
Anyone know what is proposed for AS3. Trailblazer Systems is implementing
FTP with S/MIME. They also mention AS3 on their web site as a proposed
I can't find anything about this proposed standard anywhere except for the
mention on the page indicated above.
Senior Application Engineer
1-815-654-8110 ext 2735