From owner-ietf-imapext Thu Apr 9 10:50:12 1998 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) id KAA19613 for ietf-imapext-bks; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 10:50:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from netscape.com (h-205-217-237-46.netscape.com [205.217.237.46]) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA19604 for ; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 10:50:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dredd.mcom.com (dredd.mcom.com [205.217.237.54]) by netscape.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA09462 for ; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 10:49:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from netscape.com ([205.217.229.78]) by dredd.mcom.com (Netscape Messaging Server 3.52) with ESMTP id AAA342E for ; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 10:49:30 -0700 Message-ID: <352D0A2A.98E166AE@netscape.com> Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 10:49:30 -0700 From: jgmyers@netscape.com (John Myers) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ietf-imapext@imc.org Subject: Proposed charter Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-imapext@imc.org Precedence: bulk I would like to start discussion with the following charter: Chair(s): TBD Mailing Lists: General discussion: ietf-imapext@imc.org To Subscribe: ietf-imap-request@imc.org Archive: http://www.imc.org/ietf-imapext/ Description of Working Group: The IETF IMAP extensions Working Group shall revise and publish standards-track extensions to IMAP4 for performing the following functions: 1) Access Control Lists 2) Sorting 3) Threading 4) Message-level annotations Goals and Milestones: August 98 Approve charter Dec 98 Submit revised ACL spec to IESG Mar 99 Submit revised Sorting/Threading spec(s) to IESG August 99 Submit annotation spec to IESG From owner-ietf-imapext Thu Apr 9 10:50:12 1998 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) id KAA19612 for ietf-imapext-bks; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 10:50:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from netscape.com (h-205-217-237-46.netscape.com [205.217.237.46]) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA19605 for ; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 10:50:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dredd.mcom.com (dredd.mcom.com [205.217.237.54]) by netscape.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA09339 for ; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 10:48:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from netscape.com ([205.217.229.78]) by dredd.mcom.com (Netscape Messaging Server 3.52) with ESMTP id AAA329C for ; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 10:48:02 -0700 Message-ID: <352D09D2.F7DFE95B@netscape.com> Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 10:48:02 -0700 From: jgmyers@netscape.com (John Myers) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ietf-imapext@imc.org Subject: FROM THE CHAIR: Introduction to ietf-imapext Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-imapext@imc.org Precedence: bulk The ietf-imapext@imc.org mailing list is now accepting submissions. I will be the chair of the imapext BOF at the August 98 IETF. Since I will probably be a document editor for the imapext WG (should it form), the chair of the WG will likely be someone else. Messages I send to the list in the role of BOF chair will have the prefix "FROM THE CHAIR" in the Subject:. All other messages I send to the list are in my role as individual contributor. The first task of this mailing list is to discuss the need and scope of a possible imapext Working Group and to propose a charter for such a group. At this time, discussion of proposed IMAP extensions is only appropriate insofar as it is relevant to defining the need, scope, and charter of this proposed Working Group. Detailed debate about any contentious issues in proposed extensions is inappropriate at this time--it will become appropriate only after we have rough consensus on a charter. From owner-ietf-imapext Thu Apr 9 16:07:25 1998 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) id QAA22047 for ietf-imapext-bks; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 16:07:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rembrandt.esys.ca (502@rembrandt.esys.ca [198.161.92.18]) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA22043 for ; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 16:07:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gallileo.esys.ca (gallileo.esys.ca [198.161.92.85]) by rembrandt.esys.ca (2.0.2/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA08594; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 17:07:27 -0600 From: Steve Hole Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 17:07:26 -0600 To: John Myers Subject: Re: Proposed charter Cc: ietf-imapext@imc.org In-Reply-To: <352D0A2A.98E166AE@netscape.com> References: <352D0A2A.98E166AE@netscape.com> Message-ID: X-Mailer: Simeon for Win32 Version Mercury a7 Build (8) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ietf-imapext@imc.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 09 Apr 1998 10:49:30 -0700 John Myers wrote: > Description of Working Group: > > The IETF IMAP extensions Working Group shall revise and publish > standards-track extensions to IMAP4 for performing the following > functions: > > 1) Access Control Lists > 2) Sorting > 3) Threading > 4) Message-level annotations I am not sure what context the namespace extension was discussed in -- as in we are happy enough with it just to continue or we don't believe it to be important enough to include in the list of extensions to work on in the working group. I think that it is important enough to include in the work unless we are completely happy with it so far. Cheers. --- Steve Hole The Esys Corporation Mailto:Steve.Hole@esys.ca Phone:403-424-4922 From owner-ietf-imapext Thu Apr 9 16:14:44 1998 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) id QAA22128 for ietf-imapext-bks; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 16:14:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from doggate.exchange.microsoft.com (doggate.Exchange.microsoft.com [131.107.88.55]) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA22124 for ; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 16:14:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by doggate.exchange.microsoft.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2194.0) id <2QHYM9RC>; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 16:14:32 -0700 Message-ID: <2FBF98FC7852CF11912A000000000001095E1517@DINO> From: "Larry Osterman (Exchange)" To: "'Steve Hole'" , John Myers Cc: ietf-imapext@imc.org Subject: RE: Proposed charter Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 16:14:26 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2194.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-ietf-imapext@imc.org Precedence: bulk My gut tells me that namespace is going to have to be merged as a part of the base spec, but others will probably differ. Larry Osterman Sent from larryo-laptop.dns.microsoft.com running NT5 and Outlook 98 and Exchange Server 5.5. Please notify the sender of any difficulties -----Original Message----- From: Steve Hole [mailto:steve@esys.ca] Sent: Thursday, April 09, 1998 4:07 PM To: John Myers Cc: ietf-imapext@imc.org Subject: Re: Proposed charter On Thu, 09 Apr 1998 10:49:30 -0700 John Myers wrote: > Description of Working Group: > > The IETF IMAP extensions Working Group shall revise and publish > standards-track extensions to IMAP4 for performing the following > functions: > > 1) Access Control Lists > 2) Sorting > 3) Threading > 4) Message-level annotations I am not sure what context the namespace extension was discussed in -- as in we are happy enough with it just to continue or we don't believe it to be important enough to include in the list of extensions to work on in the working group. I think that it is important enough to include in the work unless we are completely happy with it so far. Cheers. --- Steve Hole The Esys Corporation Mailto:Steve.Hole@esys.ca Phone:403-424-4922 From owner-ietf-imapext Thu Apr 9 16:37:09 1998 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) id QAA22468 for ietf-imapext-bks; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 16:37:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from eemail.microsoft.com ([131.107.88.57]) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA22464 for ; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 16:37:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ims.microsoft.com ([131.107.88.57]) by eemail.microsoft.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1875.135.13); Thu, 9 Apr 1998 16:36:58 -0700 Received: from mikega8 ([157.59.253.87]) by ims.microsoft.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1875.135.13); Thu, 9 Apr 1998 16:36:57 -0700 Message-ID: <000501bd6410$2eecff20$57fd3b9d@mikega8.mikega> From: "Mike Gahrns" To: "Steve Hole" , "John Myers" Cc: Subject: Re: Proposed charter Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 16:35:30 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOle: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-ietf-imapext@imc.org Precedence: bulk Steve Hole writes: >I am not sure what context the namespace extension was discussed in -- as in >we are happy enough with it just to continue or we don't believe it to be >important enough to include in the list of extensions to work on in the >working group. > >I think that it is important enough to include in the work unless we are >completely happy with it so far. *** Well consensus seemed to have been reached on the list on this, and it has gone through the Last Call process with no further comments. In speaking with Harald and Keith, the IESG has approved this as an RFC, although the number has not come out yet. Were you thinking of a particular problem with the draft? If so, then we definitely should discuss, but from what I could tell, thinks were pretty much wrapped up... From owner-ietf-imapext Fri Apr 10 10:18:23 1998 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) id KAA13053 for ietf-imapext-bks; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 10:18:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from darius.cyrusoft.com (darius.cyrusoft.com [206.31.218.194]) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA13049 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 10:18:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ephesus.cyrusoft.com (ephesus.cyrusoft.com [206.31.218.204]) by darius.cyrusoft.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA22175 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 13:17:50 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 13:18:43 -0400 From: "Cyrus Daboo" To: ietf-imapext@imc.org Subject: RE: Proposed charter Message-ID: <3156093156.892214323@ephesus.cyrusoft.com> X-Mailer: Mulberry (Win32) [1.4.0a2, s/n S1-000001] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-imapext@imc.org Precedence: bulk --On Thursday, April 09, 1998, 4:14 PM -0700 "Larry Osterman (Exchange)" wrote: > My gut tells me that namespace is going to have to be merged as a part of > the base spec, but others will probably differ. I believe it should be made clear in the charter that the WG has absolutely no intention to do any changes to the base spec. I presume that that is the case and I think it needs to be emphasised. Also, I think it would be a good idea to have posted to this list a complete set of all extensions and their status so we at least have an overview of what is currently being worked on or is complete. I'm not proposing that any or all of these should be considered by the WG, just that it is useful to see if there may be some overlap. Perhaps someone should volunteer to collate extensions and post it to the list. I'd be happy to do this, so if those working on extensions could email me directly with brief details (title, authors, description, status) I'll put the list together. Here's what I have already: Name Author(s) Description Status ---- --------- ----------- ------ ACL Myers Access Control Lists RFC2086 QUOTA Myers Quota controls/feedback RFC2087 LITERAL+ Myers non-synchronising RFC2088 IDLE Leiba idle time polling RFC2177 MAILBOX-REFERRALS Gahrns distributed mailboxes RFC2193 LOGIN-REFERRALS Gahrns referrals to servers RFC2221 UIDPLUS Myers Better disconnected support Last Call? NAMESPACE Gahrns, Newman mailbox namespaces Draft SORT Crispin Message sorting posted to list SCAN Crispin Multi-mailbox search? ? THREAD Crispin Threaded sorts? ? HASCHILDREN? Leiba Extra LIST flag ? ID Showalter Identification information Draft (expired) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Cyrus Daboo Cyrusoft International, Inc. Voice: +1 412 605 0499 Fax: +1 412 605 0705 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Proud Purveyors of Mulberry: Internet Mail from the Ground Up ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From owner-ietf-imapext Fri Apr 10 10:34:34 1998 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) id KAA13283 for ietf-imapext-bks; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 10:34:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from doggate.exchange.microsoft.com (doggate.Exchange.microsoft.com [131.107.88.55]) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA13279 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 10:34:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: by doggate.exchange.microsoft.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2197.1) id <24LGNRY9>; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 10:34:25 -0700 Message-ID: <0A684133865BCF118F0E08002BE7ADAC019E1D88@DABONE> From: "Mike Gahrns (Exchange)" To: "'Cyrus Daboo'" , ietf-imapext@imc.org Subject: RE: Proposed charter Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 10:34:24 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2197.1) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-ietf-imapext@imc.org Precedence: bulk Haschildren, should be Child Mailbox and authors are Gahrns and Cheng. It is draft-00, but I should have a version -01 out soon with the minor comments that came in on the list. Also Language Extension, authors Gahrns and McCown. It is also version -00 and I once again I aim to get an update out soon. you also missed rfc2088, non synchronizing literals, author Myers thx -----Original Message----- From: Cyrus Daboo [mailto:daboo@cyrusoft.com] Sent: Friday, April 10, 1998 10:19 AM To: ietf-imapext@imc.org Subject: RE: Proposed charter --On Thursday, April 09, 1998, 4:14 PM -0700 "Larry Osterman (Exchange)" wrote: > My gut tells me that namespace is going to have to be merged as a part of > the base spec, but others will probably differ. I believe it should be made clear in the charter that the WG has absolutely no intention to do any changes to the base spec. I presume that that is the case and I think it needs to be emphasised. Also, I think it would be a good idea to have posted to this list a complete set of all extensions and their status so we at least have an overview of what is currently being worked on or is complete. I'm not proposing that any or all of these should be considered by the WG, just that it is useful to see if there may be some overlap. Perhaps someone should volunteer to collate extensions and post it to the list. I'd be happy to do this, so if those working on extensions could email me directly with brief details (title, authors, description, status) I'll put the list together. Here's what I have already: Name Author(s) Description Status ---- --------- ----------- ------ ACL Myers Access Control Lists RFC2086 QUOTA Myers Quota controls/feedback RFC2087 LITERAL+ Myers non-synchronising RFC2088 IDLE Leiba idle time polling RFC2177 MAILBOX-REFERRALS Gahrns distributed mailboxes RFC2193 LOGIN-REFERRALS Gahrns referrals to servers RFC2221 UIDPLUS Myers Better disconnected support Last Call? NAMESPACE Gahrns, Newman mailbox namespaces Draft SORT Crispin Message sorting posted to list SCAN Crispin Multi-mailbox search? ? THREAD Crispin Threaded sorts? ? HASCHILDREN? Leiba Extra LIST flag ? ID Showalter Identification information Draft (expired) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Cyrus Daboo Cyrusoft International, Inc. Voice: +1 412 605 0499 Fax: +1 412 605 0705 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Proud Purveyors of Mulberry: Internet Mail from the Ground Up ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From owner-ietf-imapext Fri Apr 10 11:08:51 1998 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) id LAA13630 for ietf-imapext-bks; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:08:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from om.proper.com (ip200.proper.com [165.227.249.200]) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA13626 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:08:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.0.1.327.19980410102736.00de16a0@mail.imc.org> X-Sender: phoffman@mail.imc.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1.327 (Beta) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:08:29 -0700 To: ietf-imapext@imc.org From: Paul Hoffman / IMC Subject: RE: Proposed charter In-Reply-To: <3156093156.892214323@ephesus.cyrusoft.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-ietf-imapext@imc.org Precedence: bulk Cyrus' point is a good one. I've now made a list on of all the extensions I've seen RFCs or drafts for. I fully admit there are probably others; please look over the table and let me know what needs to be added or changed. And, for those of you on Cyrus' list that don't have drafts for your proposals: please write up an I-D! They're not that hard to put together, and they let everyone have a chance to use your work. --Paul Hoffman, Director --Internet Mail Consortium From owner-ietf-imapext Fri Apr 10 13:47:59 1998 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) id NAA14638 for ietf-imapext-bks; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 13:47:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from starfish.netscape.com (h-205-217-237-33.netscape.com [205.217.237.33]) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA14634 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 13:47:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from continuity.mcom.com (continuity.mcom.com [205.217.237.112]) by starfish.netscape.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA17618 for <@starfish.mcom.com:ietf-imapext@imc.org>; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 13:48:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from continuity.mcom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by continuity.mcom.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id NAA22141 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 13:48:17 -0700 To: ietf-imapext@imc.org Path: not-for-mail From: John Gardiner Myers Newsgroups: mcom.list.ietf-imapext Subject: Re: Proposed charter Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 13:48:39 -0700 Organization: Netscape Communications Corporation Lines: 6 Message-ID: <352E85A5.1136F2D1@netscape.com> References: <3156093156.892214323@ephesus.cyrusoft.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 198.93.95.149 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 (Macintosh; U; PPC) Sender: owner-ietf-imapext@imc.org Precedence: bulk Last I heard, UIDPLUS is in AD review prior to Last Call. I sent in the request during the last IETF. Hopefully, Last Call will be issued soon. I'll propose the following addition to the charter: Revising the base IMAP4rev1 spec is out of the scope of this WG. From owner-ietf-imapext Mon Apr 13 08:10:57 1998 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) id IAA09694 for ietf-imapext-bks; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 08:10:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rembrandt.esys.ca (502@rembrandt.esys.ca [198.161.92.18]) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA09690 for ; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 08:10:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gallileo.esys.ca (gallileo.esys.ca [198.161.92.85]) by rembrandt.esys.ca (2.0.2/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA24522 for ; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 09:11:28 -0600 From: Steve Hole Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 09:11:24 -0600 To: ietf-imapext@imc.org Subject: Re: Proposed charter In-Reply-To: <000501bd6410$2eecff20$57fd3b9d@mikega8.mikega> References: <000501bd6410$2eecff20$57fd3b9d@mikega8.mikega> Message-ID: X-Mailer: Simeon for Win32 Version Mercury a7 Build (8) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ietf-imapext@imc.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 9 Apr 1998 16:35:30 -0700 Mike Gahrns wrote: > *** Well consensus seemed to have been reached on the list on this, and it > has gone through the Last Call process with no further comments. In > speaking with Harald and Keith, the IESG has approved this as an RFC, > although the number has not come out yet. > > Were you thinking of a particular problem with the draft? If so, then we > definitely should discuss, but from what I could tell, thinks were pretty > much wrapped up... I was happy with it. At least to the point where we need some operational experience to base changes on. I was probing to see if there were any last minute issues with it. Just about all the discussion on this extension was done on the list, and I'm not sure I always trust the results in such a case. Cheers. --- Steve Hole The Esys Corporation Mailto:Steve.Hole@esys.ca Phone:403-424-4922 From owner-ietf-imapext Fri May 22 07:47:04 1998 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id HAA21503 for ietf-imapext-bks; Fri, 22 May 1998 07:47:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from darius.cyrusoft.com (darius.cyrusoft.com [206.31.218.194]) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA21499 for ; Fri, 22 May 1998 07:47:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ephesus.cyrusoft.com (ephesus.cyrusoft.com [206.31.218.204]) by darius.cyrusoft.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA02427; Fri, 22 May 1998 10:49:57 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 10:50:34 -0400 From: "Cyrus Daboo" To: IMAP@cac.washington.edu cc: ietf-imapext@imc.org Subject: SEARCHing for empty fields and extendeing the SEARCH command? Message-ID: <2481037089.895834234@ephesus.cyrusoft.com> In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Mulberry (Win32) [1.4.0a4, s/n S1-000001] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-imapext@imc.org Precedence: bulk Maybe I'm being stupid here, but is there not a way to do a search for messages that either contain an empty field or don't have a particular header present? All the search criteria seem to expect an 'astring', but what I would really like is an 'nstring' so that I could say 'SEARCH SUBJECT NIL' or 'SEARCH TO NIL' to find all messages with an empty subject line or To field - you might see why this could be useful! Along the same lines how much interest is there from vendors for having an enhanced SEARCH command be considered by IMAPEXT? I'm thinking there are many more useful things that could be done with SEARCH - even simple changes like allowing wildcards in string matches. Since search engines have been getting more and more sophisticated (having been driven by the Web) it makes sense to allow similar types of sophisticted searching in IMAP too. I'm sure those vendors with database backends on their servers would be keen on this. Comments? --Cyrus Daboo From owner-ietf-imapext Sat May 23 20:36:52 1998 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id UAA20529 for ietf-imapext-bks; Sat, 23 May 1998 20:36:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ferry.rbc.ru (ferry.rbc.ru [194.135.176.160]) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA20525 for ; Sat, 23 May 1998 20:36:51 -0700 (PDT) From: L4yvn3N0Q@trad7.no Received: (qmail 9121 invoked from network); 24 May 1998 03:34:06 -0000 Received: from rbc.rbc.ru (195.218.138.2) by ferry.rbc.ru with SMTP; 24 May 1998 03:34:06 -0000 Received: from RBC4_1/SpoolDir by RBC.rbc.ru (Mercury 1.21); 24 May 98 07:34:07 +0300 Received: from SpoolDir by RBC4_1 (Mercury 1.21); 24 May 98 07:32:51 +0300 Received: from NWPo0fWyu by RBC.rbc.ru (Mercury 1.21); 24 May 98 07:31:59 +0300 DATE: 23 May 98 11:36:30 PM Message-ID: TO: maybe@tene44r.de SUBJECT: Let Us Do It For You! 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Any negative responses will be dealt with accordingly. From owner-ietf-imapext Fri Jul 31 18:31:54 1998 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id SAA07231 for ietf-imapext-bks; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 18:31:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from doggate.exchange.microsoft.com (doggate.Exchange.microsoft.com [131.107.88.55]) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA07227 for ; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 18:31:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by doggate.exchange.microsoft.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 18:33:17 -0700 Message-ID: <2FBF98FC7852CF11912A0000000000010C992424@DINO> From: "Mike Gahrns (Exchange)" To: "'jgmyers@netscape.com'" , ietf-imapext@imc.org Cc: "'moore@cs.utk.edu'" , "'paf@swip.net'" , "Mark Pustilnik (Exchange)" Subject: Will there be an IMAP Extension WG at the Chicago IETF? Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 18:33:20 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-ietf-imapext@imc.org Precedence: bulk I could not find an imap extensions working listed on the chicago agenda. The IETF web site says that working group scheduling closes August 3 at 17:00 ET. Is an IMAP Extension WG still planned for chicago? thanks -----Original Message----- From: jgmyers@netscape.com [mailto:jgmyers@netscape.com] Sent: Thursday, April 09, 1998 10:48 AM To: ietf-imapext@imc.org Subject: FROM THE CHAIR: Introduction to ietf-imapext The ietf-imapext@imc.org mailing list is now accepting submissions. I will be the chair of the imapext BOF at the August 98 IETF. Since I will probably be a document editor for the imapext WG (should it form), the chair of the WG will likely be someone else. Messages I send to the list in the role of BOF chair will have the prefix "FROM THE CHAIR" in the Subject:. All other messages I send to the list are in my role as individual contributor. The first task of this mailing list is to discuss the need and scope of a possible imapext Working Group and to propose a charter for such a group. At this time, discussion of proposed IMAP extensions is only appropriate insofar as it is relevant to defining the need, scope, and charter of this proposed Working Group. Detailed debate about any contentious issues in proposed extensions is inappropriate at this time--it will become appropriate only after we have rough consensus on a charter. From owner-ietf-imapext Fri Jul 31 21:21:22 1998 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id VAA07732 for ietf-imapext-bks; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 21:21:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spot.cs.utk.edu (SPOT.CS.UTK.EDU [128.169.92.189]) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA07728 for ; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 21:21:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spot.cs.utk.edu by spot.cs.utk.edu with ESMTP (cf v2.11c-UTK) id AAA01088; Sat, 1 Aug 1998 00:23:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199808010423.AAA01088@spot.cs.utk.edu> X-URI: http://www.cs.utk.edu/~moore/ From: Keith Moore To: "Mike Gahrns (Exchange)" cc: "'jgmyers@netscape.com'" , ietf-imapext@imc.org, "'moore@cs.utk.edu'" , "'paf@swip.net'" , "Mark Pustilnik (Exchange)" , moore@cs.utk.edu Subject: Re: Will there be an IMAP Extension WG at the Chicago IETF? In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 31 Jul 1998 18:33:20 PDT." <2FBF98FC7852CF11912A0000000000010C992424@DINO> Date: Sat, 01 Aug 1998 00:23:06 -0400 Sender: owner-ietf-imapext@imc.org Precedence: bulk > I could not find an imap extensions working listed on the chicago agenda. > > The IETF web site says that working group scheduling closes August 3 at > 17:00 ET. Is an IMAP Extension WG still planned for chicago? Yes, we do have a slot reserved. It's just that the secretariat won't list any BOFs in the schedule until they have 1. a chairperson 2. a description 3. a preliminary agenda So somebody needs to send these for imapext to agenda@ietf.org I didn't find this out until today, and my email has been down all day, which is why you're just now hearing about it. Keith From owner-ietf-imapext Thu Aug 6 15:15:58 1998 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id PAA06233 for ietf-imapext-bks; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 15:15:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from starfish.netscape.com (h-205-217-237-33.netscape.com [205.217.237.33]) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA06229 for ; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 15:15:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from continuity.mcom.com (continuity.mcom.com [205.217.237.112]) by starfish.netscape.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA27728 for <@starfish.mcom.com:ietf-imapext@imc.org>; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 15:17:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from continuity.mcom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by continuity.mcom.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id PAA03672 for ; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 15:17:55 -0700 To: ietf-imapext@imc.org Path: not-for-mail From: John Gardiner Myers Newsgroups: mcom.list.ietf-imapext Subject: Proposed charter Date: Thu, 06 Aug 1998 15:17:53 -0700 Organization: Netscape Communications Corporation Lines: 37 Message-ID: <35CA2B91.23E34D60@netscape.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.12.60.63 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b1 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en Sender: owner-ietf-imapext@imc.org Precedence: bulk To remind people, the proposed charter is as follows: Chair(s): TBD Mailing Lists: General discussion: ietf-imapext@imc.org To Subscribe: ietf-imap-request@imc.org Archive: http://www.imc.org/ietf-imapext/ Description of Working Group: The IETF IMAP extensions Working Group shall revise and publish standards-track extensions to IMAP4 for performing the following functions: 1) Access Control Lists 2) Sorting 3) Threading 4) Message-level annotations Revising the base IMAP4rev1 specification is out of the scope of this WG. Goals and Milestones: August 98 Approve charter Dec 98 Submit revised ACL spec to IESG Mar 99 Submit revised Sorting/Threading spec(s) to IESG August 99 Submit annotation spec to IESG From owner-ietf-imapext Fri Aug 7 17:14:35 1998 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id RAA04906 for ietf-imapext-bks; Fri, 7 Aug 1998 17:14:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tide03.microsoft.com (firewall-user@tide03.microsoft.com [131.107.3.13]) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA04902 for ; Fri, 7 Aug 1998 17:14:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: by tide03.microsoft.com; id RAA19555; Fri, 7 Aug 1998 17:17:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from unknown(157.54.17.74) by tide03.microsoft.com via smap (V3.1) id xma019549; Fri, 7 Aug 98 17:16:55 -0700 Received: from red-01-imc.dns.microsoft.com ([157.54.1.197]) by imail2.microsoft.com (8.7.3/8.7.1) with ESMTP id RAA22834; Fri, 7 Aug 1998 17:27:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from popdog.exchange.microsoft.com (POPDOG [172.30.236.242]) by red-01-imc.dns.microsoft.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2232.9) id QMVCHA2G; Fri, 7 Aug 1998 17:16:56 -0700 Received: from MIKEGA9 ([157.59.255.141]) by popdog.exchange.microsoft.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2232.9) id QJBJPWXV; Fri, 7 Aug 1998 17:17:48 -0700 Message-ID: <000a01bdc262$3439d1f0$8dff3b9d@mikega9.dns.microsoft.com> From: "Mike Gahrns" To: , "John Gardiner Myers" Subject: Re: Proposed charter Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 17:19:27 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-ietf-imapext@imc.org Precedence: bulk Did we now get an official slot on the IETF agenda? Its still not showing up on the ietf web site.... For those unable to attend the entire IETF week, it would be helpful to know when this is scheduled for in regards to making our travel arrangements. thanks -----Original Message----- From: John Gardiner Myers Newsgroups: mcom.list.ietf-imapext To: ietf-imapext@imc.org Date: Thursday, August 06, 1998 3:21 PM Subject: Proposed charter >To remind people, the proposed charter is as follows: > >Chair(s): > >TBD > >Mailing Lists: > >General discussion: ietf-imapext@imc.org >To Subscribe: ietf-imap-request@imc.org >Archive: http://www.imc.org/ietf-imapext/ > > >Description of Working Group: > >The IETF IMAP extensions Working Group shall revise and publish >standards-track extensions to IMAP4 for performing the following >functions: > >1) Access Control Lists >2) Sorting >3) Threading >4) Message-level annotations > >Revising the base IMAP4rev1 specification is out of the scope of this >WG. > > >Goals and Milestones: > >August 98 Approve charter > >Dec 98 Submit revised ACL spec to IESG > >Mar 99 Submit revised Sorting/Threading spec(s) to IESG > >August 99 Submit annotation spec to IESG > From owner-ietf-imapext Fri Aug 7 21:03:15 1998 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id VAA06114 for ietf-imapext-bks; Fri, 7 Aug 1998 21:03:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vadar.mcom.com (h-207-1-141-5.netscape.com [207.1.141.5]) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA06110 for ; Fri, 7 Aug 1998 21:03:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from netscape.com ([198.93.95.141]) by vadar.mcom.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.0b2 ) with ESMTP id 0EXCRBI0.03U for ; Fri, 7 Aug 1998 21:04:30 -0700 Message-ID: <35CBCE87.599BC832@netscape.com> Date: Fri, 07 Aug 1998 21:05:27 -0700 From: John Gardiner Myers X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b1 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: English [en] MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ietf-imapext@imc.org Subject: Re: Proposed charter References: <000a01bdc262$3439d1f0$8dff3b9d@mikega9.dns.microsoft.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-imapext@imc.org Precedence: bulk Mike Gahrns wrote: > For those unable to attend the entire IETF week, it would be helpful to know > when this is scheduled for in regards to making our travel arrangements. It's scheduled Tuesday 10:15. I only recently got the agenda in, so it should show up soon. From owner-ietf-imapext Mon Dec 7 13:01:22 1998 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id NAA21858 for ietf-imapext-bks; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 13:01:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtprich (smtprich.nortel.com [192.135.215.8]) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA21854 for ; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 13:01:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from zrtpd004.us.nortel.com (actually nrtpd004) by smtprich; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 15:03:39 -0600 Received: by zrtpd004.us.nortel.com with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id ; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 15:31:37 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Glenn Parsons" To: ietf-imapext@imc.org, imap@u.washington.edu Cc: vpim-l@ema.org Subject: IMAP extensions for voice messaging Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 15:31:17 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ietf-imapext@imc.org Precedence: bulk Folks, For those who are interested there will be a short discussion on requirements (and maybe some possible solutions) for IMAP extensions for voice messaging at the Orlando IETF. I think the feeling is that this would be outside the scope of the proposed IMAPEXT BOF that met in Chicago. Essentially, we are initially thinking of a short list of IMAP extensions that would assist voice mail (and likely 'unified messaging') systems: - binary attachment transfer - external reference (e.g., use phone for playback) - alternate codec request (i.e., server please transcode) - streaming audio attachments Actually the extensions may become a part of VPIM (RFC2421) and not require any extensions 'per se' in IMAP. If you are interested, please join us in Pelican B, Tuesday at 1pm. Cheers, Glenn. From owner-ietf-imapext Tue Dec 15 11:31:02 1998 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id LAA08246 for ietf-imapext-bks; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 11:31:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtpott1.nortel.ca (smtpott1.nortel.ca [192.58.194.78]) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA08242 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 11:31:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from zcard00m.ca.nortel.com by smtpott1; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 14:36:25 -0500 Received: by zcard00m.ca.nortel.com with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 14:36:23 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Glenn Parsons" To: "'vpim-l@ema.org'" , "'ietf-imapext@imc.org'" , "'discuss@apps.ietf.org'" Subject: IMAP extensions for voice Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 14:36:21 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ietf-imapext@imc.org Precedence: bulk Folks, Following on from the informal BOF in Orlando we have set up a mailing list to discuss extensions to IMAP4 in support of voice messaging system requirements. The goal is to standardize these extensions in the IETF. As discussed in Orlando, the current featrues of interest are: - Binary attachment transfer - External reference (e.g., use phone for playback) - Alternate codec request (i.e., server please transcode) - Streaming audio attachments - Message length indicator (seconds for voice, pages for fax) - Body part read indicator (separate for voice, fax and other) > To subscribe to the mailing list, send a message to > ietf-imap-voice-request@imc.or > with the single word > subscribe > in the body of the message. There is a description of the list and archive > at . > Cheers, Glenn From owner-ietf-imapext Fri Jan 15 10:24:05 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id IAA23721 for ietf-imapext-bks; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:44:12 -0800 (PST) Received: (from phoffman@localhost) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id IAA23661; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:43:40 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:43:40 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901151643.IAA23661@mail.proper.com> From: List Manager of ietf-imapext To: ietf-imapext@imc.org Subject: How to be removed from this list Sender: owner-ietf-imapext@imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: Greetings again. Occasionally, people will sign up for a mailing list and forget how to be removed. This message is a reminder for those folks. First off, when you subscribe to a mailing list, you almost always get a first message from the list owner telling you about the mailing list, and explaining how to unsubscribe. It is always a good idea to keep those messages, since you never know when you will need to unsubscribe. This is particularly useful when you change email addresses, because it is difficult to unsubscribe from a list after you have a different mailing address. In the case of this list, the method to unsubscribe is to send a message to: ietf-imapext-request@imc.org with the single word: unsubscribe in the body of the message. This is the same as it always has been. To make this easier for you, I have crafted this message so that you should be able to simply reply to this message, and the reply address should be ietf-imapext-request@imc.org (although some mail clients screw this up...). Remove everything from the body of the reply, and put in the single word: unsubscribe If you have tried this method, and the mailing list software won't let you unsubscribe, it is probably because your address has changed. In that case, please send a message to subs@imc.org stating which list (or lists) you want to unsubscribe from, and what you think your previous address was. There is a human (that's me!) who will then try to take care of your request, often within a few days. --Paul Hoffman, Director --Internet Mail Consortium From owner-ietf-imapext Tue Mar 30 07:06:15 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id HAA09727 for ietf-imapext-bks; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 07:06:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from igw3.watson.ibm.com (igw3.watson.ibm.com [198.81.209.18]) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA09723 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 07:06:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailhub.watson.ibm.com (mailhub.watson.ibm.com [9.2.250.97]) by igw3.watson.ibm.com (8.8.7/07-11-97) with ESMTP id KAA02658 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 10:06:16 -0500 Received: from aspen.watson.ibm.com (aspen.watson.ibm.com [9.2.3.31]) by mailhub.watson.ibm.com (8.8.7/Feb-20-98) with SMTP id KAA03382 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 10:06:15 -0500 Received: from mars.watson.ibm.com by aspen.watson.ibm.com (IBM OS/2 SENDMAIL VERSION 2.0/ISSC1.0) id KAA041.24; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 10:06:04 -0500 From: Barry Leiba Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 10:06:14 -0500 To: ietf-imapext@imc.org Subject: IMAPExt discussion at 44th IETF Message-ID: X-Mailer: Execmail for Win32 Version 5.0 Build (41) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="us-ascii"; name="ipm.txt" Content-Disposition: inline; filename="ipm.txt" Sender: owner-ietf-imapext@imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: Those of us who were at the 44th IETF in Minneapolis got together on Wednesday afternoon to discuss some IMAP extensions issues and to get ready to get the IMAPEXT working group started for real. I took some notes at the gathering, and I'm posting them here to start some discussion. They aren't terribly detailed, so details will have to be filled in during the discussion. I can also post, if someone would like, the notes my Mark Pustilnik and Chris Newman, proposing (and counter-proposing) how the extended SELECT, referred to below, should work. Of course, people should feel free to correct errors and fill in gaps in my notes, as appropriate. Barry Leiba, Internet Messaging Technology (leiba@watson.ibm.com) http://www.research.ibm.com/people/l/leiba -------- IMAP Ext -------- Goal: start IMAPext activity in Oslo. Work items: Sort, Thread, ACL, Annotate (not I18n) Authors... Annotate: Chris -transfer to-> Cyrus & Steve Sort: Mark C Sorted view: ? ask Mark P Thread: Mark C has ideas ACL: ? Discussion of Mark P/Chris proposal. Server advertises capability. Optional sort & search parameters on select/examine. Sequence numbers now reflect sorted order -- client behaves as usual. New/changed server responses (MOVE, REMOVE, NEW, VIEW?). 1. Should client be told about messages outside view? 2. Should view change or be static (add only)? 3. How does this dovetail (or not) with Mark C's sort & view? Discussion of threads 1. How to represent the tree/graph 2. Multiple parents are difficult. 3. Does this interact with view? 4. Is it sufficient to give, for each message, the UID of the nearest parent that's in the view, and the number of missing levels (not in view)? Thread experimental? Limit thread to simple hierarchy (no multi-parent)? Can we do sort *before* thread, without worrying too much about interaction? Thread on view: "Show me the treeness of this set" (Pete R) Consensus: Select extension is good... go ahead with it. Continue working on thread -- orthogonal. Threading, using additional fetch attributes -- investigate. Pete prompts Mark P to draft something & post to mailing list. Alexei is second choice, maybe Cyrus. ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-ietf-imapext Tue Mar 30 12:28:51 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id MAA13363 for ietf-imapext-bks; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 12:28:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp1.cern.ch (smtp1.cern.ch [137.138.128.38]) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA13359 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 12:28:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from cern.ch (csacbp12.cern.ch [137.138.245.32]) by smtp1.cern.ch (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA15672; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 22:27:31 +0200 (MET DST) X-Authentication-Warning: smtp1.cern.ch: Host csacbp12.cern.ch [137.138.245.32] claimed to be cern.ch Message-ID: <370135B4.9AA56A4E@cern.ch> Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 22:36:04 +0200 From: Arnaud Taddei X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,fr-FR MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Barry Leiba CC: ietf-imapext@imc.org, imap@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: IMAPExt discussion at 44th IETF References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-imapext@imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: I don't know if this should be discussed here or if it is the right timing for that but some long time ago it was discussed the possibility to have a CLIENTINFO command. I believe that this command doesn't exist for IMAP. Although I can see some drawbacks, it would be extremely useful from a service point of view to capture a string which would declare what client from which platform is connecting to the IMAP server. There are rather clear needs for user support and statistics/service deployment point of view. Any chance to see this as an IMAP extension? Is it that terrible? Barry Leiba wrote: > > Those of us who were at the 44th IETF in Minneapolis got together on > Wednesday afternoon to discuss some IMAP extensions issues and to get ready > to get the IMAPEXT working group started for real. I took some notes at > the gathering, and I'm posting them here to start some discussion. They > aren't terribly detailed, so details will have to be filled in during the > discussion. I can also post, if someone would like, the notes my Mark > Pustilnik and Chris Newman, proposing (and counter-proposing) how the > extended SELECT, referred to below, should work. > > Of course, people should feel free to correct errors and fill in gaps in my > notes, as appropriate. > > Barry Leiba, Internet Messaging Technology (leiba@watson.ibm.com) > http://www.research.ibm.com/people/l/leiba > > -------- > IMAP Ext > -------- > Goal: start IMAPext activity in Oslo. > Work items: Sort, Thread, ACL, Annotate (not I18n) > > Authors... > Annotate: Chris -transfer to-> Cyrus & Steve > Sort: Mark C > Sorted view: ? ask Mark P > Thread: Mark C has ideas > ACL: ? > > Discussion of Mark P/Chris proposal. > Server advertises capability. > Optional sort & search parameters on select/examine. > Sequence numbers now reflect sorted order -- client behaves as usual. > New/changed server responses (MOVE, REMOVE, NEW, VIEW?). > 1. Should client be told about messages outside view? > 2. Should view change or be static (add only)? > 3. How does this dovetail (or not) with Mark C's sort & view? > > Discussion of threads > 1. How to represent the tree/graph > 2. Multiple parents are difficult. > 3. Does this interact with view? > 4. Is it sufficient to give, for each message, the UID of the nearest > parent that's in the view, and the number of missing levels (not in view)? > > Thread experimental? > Limit thread to simple hierarchy (no multi-parent)? > Can we do sort *before* thread, without worrying too much about interaction? > Thread on view: "Show me the treeness of this set" (Pete R) > > Consensus: > Select extension is good... go ahead with it. > Continue working on thread -- orthogonal. > Threading, using additional fetch attributes -- investigate. > > Pete prompts Mark P to draft something & post to mailing list. Alexei is > second choice, maybe Cyrus. > ----------------------------------------------------------------- -- ------------------------------------------------------------ Arnaud Taddei tel: +41 22 767 9349 IT Division 31 1-016 fax: +41 22 767 7155 CERN mail: Arnaud.Taddei@cern.ch CH-1211 Geneve 23 URL: http://wwwinfo.cern.ch/~taddei ------------------------------------------------------------ From owner-ietf-imapext Tue Mar 30 12:47:54 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id MAA13555 for ietf-imapext-bks; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 12:47:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from igw3.watson.ibm.com (igw3.watson.ibm.com [198.81.209.18]) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA13551 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 12:47:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailhub.watson.ibm.com (mailhub.watson.ibm.com [9.2.250.97]) by igw3.watson.ibm.com (8.8.7/07-11-97) with ESMTP id PAA125804; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 15:47:55 -0500 Received: from mars (mars.watson.ibm.com [9.2.2.58]) by mailhub.watson.ibm.com (8.8.7/Feb-20-98) with SMTP id PAA26758; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 15:47:55 -0500 Message-ID: <00d501be7aee$95de94f0$3a020209@watson.ibm.com> From: "Barry Leiba" To: Cc: References: <370135B4.9AA56A4E@cern.ch> Subject: Re: IMAPExt discussion at 44th IETF Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 15:47:54 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-ietf-imapext@imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: Arnaud Taddei says... > I don't know if this should be discussed here or if it is the right First, let's please *not* start discussing things in two places. One thing is clear: the IMAPEXT working group does not have this issue on its charter, so let's keep any discussion of this on the IMAP mailing list. Please remove the cc for imapext from any replies to this. > timing for that but some long time ago it was discussed the possibility > to have a CLIENTINFO command. I believe that this command doesn't exist > for IMAP. Although I can see some drawbacks, it would be extremely > useful from a service point of view to capture a string which would > declare what client from which platform is connecting to the IMAP > server. There's an obsolete draft by Tim Showalter for the "ID" command, which allows a client to announce its name, vendor, version number, and such to the server and get the server's corresponding information in return. In fact, my server implements this, just because it was trivial to do, but I know of no other server or client that does. There simply wasn't enough interest in it to carry it further, and people were worried (rightly so) that some implementations would use this to tailor their behaviour to certain other implementations, at the expense of interoperability. Barry Leiba, Internet Messaging Technology (leiba@watson.ibm.com) http://www.research.ibm.com/people/l/leiba From owner-ietf-imapext Tue Mar 30 12:47:44 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id MAA13545 for ietf-imapext-bks; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 12:47:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from igw3.watson.ibm.com (igw3.watson.ibm.com [198.81.209.18]) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA13541 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 12:47:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailhub.watson.ibm.com (mailhub.watson.ibm.com [9.2.250.97]) by igw3.watson.ibm.com (8.8.7/07-11-97) with ESMTP id PAA124514; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 15:47:46 -0500 Received: from mars (mars.watson.ibm.com [9.2.2.58]) by mailhub.watson.ibm.com (8.8.7/Feb-20-98) with SMTP id PAA22398; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 15:47:45 -0500 Message-ID: <00d401be7aee$90114a90$3a020209@watson.ibm.com> From: "Barry Leiba" To: Cc: References: <370135B4.9AA56A4E@cern.ch> Subject: Re: IMAPExt discussion at 44th IETF Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 15:47:44 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-ietf-imapext@imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: Arnaud Taddei says... > I don't know if this should be discussed here or if it is the right First, let's please *not* start discussing things in two places. One thing is clear: the IMAPEXT working group does not have this issue on its charter, so let's keep any discussion of this on the IMAP mailing list. Please remove the cc for imapext from any replies to this. > timing for that but some long time ago it was discussed the possibility > to have a CLIENTINFO command. I believe that this command doesn't exist > for IMAP. Although I can see some drawbacks, it would be extremely > useful from a service point of view to capture a string which would > declare what client from which platform is connecting to the IMAP > server. There's an obsolete draft by Tim Showalter for the "ID" command, which allows a client to announce its name, vendor, version number, and such to the server and get the server's corresponding information in return. In fact, my server implements this, just because it was trivial to do, but I know of no other server or client that does. There simply wasn't enough interest in it to carry it further, and people were worried (rightly so) that some implementations would use this to tailor their behaviour to certain other implementations, at the expense of interoperability. Barry Leiba, Internet Messaging Technology (leiba@watson.ibm.com) http://www.research.ibm.com/people/l/leiba From owner-ietf-imapext Tue Mar 30 12:47:57 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id MAA13564 for ietf-imapext-bks; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 12:47:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from igw3.watson.ibm.com (igw3.watson.ibm.com [198.81.209.18]) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA13560 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 12:47:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailhub.watson.ibm.com (mailhub.watson.ibm.com [9.2.250.97]) by igw3.watson.ibm.com (8.8.7/07-11-97) with ESMTP id PAA04468; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 15:47:58 -0500 Received: from mars (mars.watson.ibm.com [9.2.2.58]) by mailhub.watson.ibm.com (8.8.7/Feb-20-98) with SMTP id PAA18318; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 15:47:58 -0500 Message-ID: <00d601be7aee$9792d4a0$3a020209@watson.ibm.com> From: "Barry Leiba" To: Cc: References: <370135B4.9AA56A4E@cern.ch> Subject: Re: IMAPExt discussion at 44th IETF Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 15:47:57 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-ietf-imapext@imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: Arnaud Taddei says... > I don't know if this should be discussed here or if it is the right First, let's please *not* start discussing things in two places. One thing is clear: the IMAPEXT working group does not have this issue on its charter, so let's keep any discussion of this on the IMAP mailing list. Please remove the cc for imapext from any replies to this. > timing for that but some long time ago it was discussed the possibility > to have a CLIENTINFO command. I believe that this command doesn't exist > for IMAP. Although I can see some drawbacks, it would be extremely > useful from a service point of view to capture a string which would > declare what client from which platform is connecting to the IMAP > server. There's an obsolete draft by Tim Showalter for the "ID" command, which allows a client to announce its name, vendor, version number, and such to the server and get the server's corresponding information in return. In fact, my server implements this, just because it was trivial to do, but I know of no other server or client that does. There simply wasn't enough interest in it to carry it further, and people were worried (rightly so) that some implementations would use this to tailor their behaviour to certain other implementations, at the expense of interoperability. Barry Leiba, Internet Messaging Technology (leiba@watson.ibm.com) http://www.research.ibm.com/people/l/leiba From owner-ietf-imapext Tue Mar 30 12:49:44 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id MAA13619 for ietf-imapext-bks; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 12:49:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from igw3.watson.ibm.com (igw3.watson.ibm.com [198.81.209.18]) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA13615 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 12:49:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailhub.watson.ibm.com (mailhub.watson.ibm.com [9.2.250.97]) by igw3.watson.ibm.com (8.8.7/07-11-97) with ESMTP id PAA04500; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 15:49:45 -0500 Received: from aspen.watson.ibm.com (aspen.watson.ibm.com [9.2.3.31]) by mailhub.watson.ibm.com (8.8.7/Feb-20-98) with SMTP id PAA26730; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 15:49:45 -0500 Received: from mars.watson.ibm.com by aspen.watson.ibm.com (IBM OS/2 SENDMAIL VERSION 2.0/ISSC1.0) id PAA041.58; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 15:49:34 -0500 From: Barry Leiba Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 15:49:44 -0500 To: imap@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: IMAPExt discussion at 44th IETF Cc: ietf-imapext@imc.org In-Reply-To: <370135B4.9AA56A4E@cern.ch> References: <370135B4.9AA56A4E@cern.ch> Message-ID: X-Mailer: Execmail for Win32 Version 5.0 Build (41) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="us-ascii"; name="ipm.txt" Content-Disposition: inline; filename="ipm.txt" Sender: owner-ietf-imapext@imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: Arnaud Taddei says... > I don't know if this should be discussed here or if it is the right First, let's please *not* start discussing things in two places. One thing is clear: the IMAPEXT working group does not have this issue on its charter, so let's keep any discussion of this on the IMAP mailing list. Please remove the cc for imapext from any replies to this. > timing for that but some long time ago it was discussed the possibility > to have a CLIENTINFO command. I believe that this command doesn't exist > for IMAP. Although I can see some drawbacks, it would be extremely > useful from a service point of view to capture a string which would > declare what client from which platform is connecting to the IMAP > server. There's an obsolete draft by Tim Showalter for the "ID" command, which allows a client to announce its name, vendor, version number, and such to the server and get the server's corresponding information in return. In fact, my server implements this, just because it was trivial to do, but I know of no other server or client that does. There simply wasn't enough interest in it to carry it further, and people were worried (rightly so) that some implementations would use this to tailor their behaviour to certain other implementations, at the expense of interoperability. Barry Leiba, Internet Messaging Technology (leiba@watson.ibm.com) http://www.research.ibm.com/people/l/leiba From owner-ietf-imapext Tue Mar 30 12:48:06 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id MAA13573 for ietf-imapext-bks; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 12:48:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from igw3.watson.ibm.com (igw3.watson.ibm.com [198.81.209.18]) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA13569 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 12:48:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailhub.watson.ibm.com (mailhub.watson.ibm.com [9.2.250.97]) by igw3.watson.ibm.com (8.8.7/07-11-97) with ESMTP id PAA125572; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 15:48:07 -0500 Received: from mars (mars.watson.ibm.com [9.2.2.58]) by mailhub.watson.ibm.com (8.8.7/Feb-20-98) with SMTP id PAA14236; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 15:48:07 -0500 Message-ID: <00d701be7aee$9d18b5c0$3a020209@watson.ibm.com> From: "Barry Leiba" To: Cc: References: <370135B4.9AA56A4E@cern.ch> Subject: Re: IMAPExt discussion at 44th IETF Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 15:48:06 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-ietf-imapext@imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: Arnaud Taddei says... > I don't know if this should be discussed here or if it is the right First, let's please *not* start discussing things in two places. One thing is clear: the IMAPEXT working group does not have this issue on its charter, so let's keep any discussion of this on the IMAP mailing list. Please remove the cc for imapext from any replies to this. > timing for that but some long time ago it was discussed the possibility > to have a CLIENTINFO command. I believe that this command doesn't exist > for IMAP. Although I can see some drawbacks, it would be extremely > useful from a service point of view to capture a string which would > declare what client from which platform is connecting to the IMAP > server. There's an obsolete draft by Tim Showalter for the "ID" command, which allows a client to announce its name, vendor, version number, and such to the server and get the server's corresponding information in return. In fact, my server implements this, just because it was trivial to do, but I know of no other server or client that does. There simply wasn't enough interest in it to carry it further, and people were worried (rightly so) that some implementations would use this to tailor their behaviour to certain other implementations, at the expense of interoperability. Barry Leiba, Internet Messaging Technology (leiba@watson.ibm.com) http://www.research.ibm.com/people/l/leiba From owner-ietf-imapext Thu Apr 15 07:15:35 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id HAA18838 for ietf-imapext-bks; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 07:15:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from darius.cyrusoft.com (darius.cyrusoft.com [206.31.218.194]) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA18834 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 07:15:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ephesus.cyrusoft.com (ephesus.cyrusoft.com [206.31.218.204]) by darius.cyrusoft.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA08538; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 10:15:24 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 10:15:09 -0400 From: Cyrus Daboo To: IMAP@u.washington.edu cc: ietf-imapext@imc.org Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-daboo-imap-commandplus-00.txt (fwd) Message-ID: <753340991.924171309@ephesus.cyrusoft.com> Originator-Info: login-id=daboo; server=imap.cyrusoft.com:431 X-Mailer: Mulberry (Win32) [2.0.0d9, s/n S1-000001] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-ietf-imapext@imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Date: Thursday, April 15, 1999, 8:24 AM -0400 From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org To: IETF-Announce Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-daboo-imap-commandplus-00.txt A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. Title : IMAP4 COMMAND+ Extension Author(s) : C. Daboo,B. Leiba Filename : draft-daboo-imap-commandplus-00.txt Pages : 6 Date : 14-Apr-99 The COMMAND+ extension to the Internet Message Access Protocol [IMAP4] defines a formal syntax for extending [IMAP4] commands. This includes adding requirements on future extensions to the [IMAP4] syntax that may add new commands, so that any command in an [IMAP4] session, be it part of the base-specification, or a current or future extension, can be extended in an arbitrary manner, without conflicts in syntax between current or future extensions. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-daboo-imap-commandplus-00.txt Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-daboo-imap-commandplus-00.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-daboo-imap-commandplus-00.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. ---------- End Forwarded Message ---------- -- Cyrus From owner-ietf-imapext Wed Jun 2 10:10:58 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id KAA21452 for ietf-imapext-bks; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 10:10:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from resnick1.qualcomm.com (resnick1.qualcomm.com [206.139.85.98]) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA21448 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 10:10:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dhcp990531114138.qualcomm.com (129.46.215.137) by resnick1.qualcomm.com with ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2b7); Wed, 2 Jun 1999 12:12:03 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: resnick@resnick1.qualcomm.com Message-Id: X-Mailer: Eudora [Macintosh version 4.2b??] Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 10:11:57 -0700 To: ietf-imapext@imc.org From: Pete Resnick Subject: IMAPEXT at Oslo? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-ietf-imapext@imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: There hasn't been a whole lot of action here to charter a WG or have discussions. Do we want to BOF at Oslo for the purpose of chartering a WG? What's the state of affairs? Deadlines are looming. pr -- Pete Resnick Eudora Engineering - QUALCOMM Incorporated Ph: (217)337-6377 or (619)651-4478, Fax: (619)651-1102 From owner-ietf-imapext Wed Jun 2 10:22:38 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id KAA21620 for ietf-imapext-bks; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 10:22:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from darius.cyrusoft.com (darius.cyrusoft.com [206.31.218.194]) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA21616 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 10:22:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ephesus.cyrusoft.com (ephesus.cyrusoft.com [206.31.218.204]) by darius.cyrusoft.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA08264; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 13:23:31 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 13:22:22 -0400 From: Cyrus Daboo To: Pete Resnick , ietf-imapext@imc.org Subject: Re: IMAPEXT at Oslo? Message-ID: <616806434.928329742@ephesus.cyrusoft.com> In-Reply-To: Originator-Info: login-id=daboo; server=imap.cyrusoft.com:431 X-Mailer: Mulberry (Win32) [2.0.0a2, s/n S1-000001] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-ietf-imapext@imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: --On Wednesday, June 02, 1999, 10:11 AM -0700 Pete Resnick wrote: > There hasn't been a whole lot of action here to charter a WG or have > discussions. Do we want to BOF at Oslo for the purpose of chartering > a WG? What's the state of affairs? Deadlines are looming. I think we should have a meeting. Ideally we should get the WG setup and running before then so we can do 'real work' in Oslo, though a BOF would be just as good. What's currently holding up chartering of this group? I thought we had a charter bashed out ready to go? Can we make sure a request goes in to the ADs for a meeting in Oslo (be it WG or BOF)? I have a sort draft that is being reviewed by co-authors right now, and hopefully we can get this out to the list soon. There will be some serious debate about this and a face-to-face in Oslo would proove extermely beneficial IMHO. -- Cyrus From owner-ietf-imapext Wed Jun 2 11:21:03 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id LAA22027 for ietf-imapext-bks; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 11:21:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tide03.microsoft.com (firewall-user@tide03.microsoft.com [131.107.3.13]) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA22023 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 11:21:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by tide03.microsoft.com; id LAA28038; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 11:22:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imail2.dns.microsoft.com(157.54.17.74) by tide03.microsoft.com via smap (V3.1) id xma028031; Wed, 2 Jun 99 11:21:58 -0700 Received: from red-imc-01.dns.microsoft.com ([157.54.4.91]) by imail2.microsoft.com (8.7.3/8.7.1) with ESMTP id LAA07727; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 11:37:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ptgate.dns.microsoft.com (PTGATE [172.30.236.86]) by red-imc-01.dns.microsoft.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2448.0) id MC9QTRDM; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 11:21:47 -0700 Received: from PTROUTE.dfpt.extest.microsoft.com (PTROUTE [172.30.236.83]) by ptgate.dns.microsoft.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2448.0) id LFBL0MYN; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 11:21:50 -0700 Received: from PTDOG.dfpt.extest.microsoft.com ([172.30.236.159]) by PTROUTE.dfpt.extest.microsoft.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2031.2031.2); Wed, 2 Jun 1999 11:22:22 -0700 From: "Mike Gahrns (Platinum)" To: "Cyrus Daboo" , "Pete Resnick" , Subject: RE: IMAPEXT at Oslo? Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 11:22:21 -0700 Message-ID: <04855D0BAA0ED311BA7800A0C9C74D0F022015@PTDOG.dfpt.extest.microsoft.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_1EE12_01BEACEA.2F828440" content-class: urn:content-classes:message/mail X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <04855D0BAA0ED311BA7800A0C9C74D0F022015@PTDOG.dfpt.extest.microsoft.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Jun 1999 18:22:22.0252 (UTC) FILETIME=[DB4B36C0:01BEAD24] Sender: owner-ietf-imapext@imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_1EE12_01BEACEA.2F828440 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I agree whole heartily with Cyrus here. There have been several informal discussions off the list in regards to SORT. As Cyrus mentions, there are a couple of proposals that are close to being issued as drafts. A face to face meeting in Oslo will prove extremely beneficial, as in the early stages of many proposals, a lot more can be accomplished quicker through face to face discussions rather than lengthy email exchanges. At the last IMC interop event in San Jose a few months ago, I think the general consensus of the room was that there should be an IMAPEXT WG at the next meeting. Although not entirely related to the orginal proposed charter of the WG, there was a lot of discussion a few months back on the regular IMAP list regarding LIST Extensions/Childmailbox, etc.. If there is an IMAPEXT WG, a lot of the right people will likely be at OSLO to further discuss this. -----Original Message----- From: Cyrus Daboo [mailto:daboo@cyrusoft.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 1999 10:22 AM To: Pete Resnick; ietf-imapext@imc.org Subject: Re: IMAPEXT at Oslo? --On Wednesday, June 02, 1999, 10:11 AM -0700 Pete Resnick wrote: > There hasn't been a whole lot of action here to charter a WG or have > discussions. Do we want to BOF at Oslo for the purpose of chartering > a WG? What's the state of affairs? Deadlines are looming. I think we should have a meeting. Ideally we should get the WG setup and running before then so we can do 'real work' in Oslo, though a BOF would be just as good. What's currently holding up chartering of this group? I thought we had a charter bashed out ready to go? Can we make sure a request goes in to the ADs for a meeting in Oslo (be it WG or BOF)? I have a sort draft that is being reviewed by co-authors right now, and hopefully we can get this out to the list soon. There will be some serious debate about this and a face-to-face in Oslo would proove extermely beneficial IMHO. -- Cyrus ------=_NextPart_000_1EE12_01BEACEA.2F828440 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef; name="winmail.dat" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IhgSAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEgAEAFQAAAFJFOiBJTUFQRVhUIGF0IE9z bG8/APoFAQWAAwAOAAAAzwcGAAIACwAWABUAAwAXAQEggAMADgAAAM8HBgACAAsAFgAXAAMAGQEB CYABACEAAAAxOEJCRTMzODE3MTlEMzExQkE3RTAwQTBDOUM3NEQwRgAvBwEDkAYAVA0AADwAAAAL AAIAAQAAAAMAJgAAAAAAAwAuAAAAAAADADYAAAAAAEAAOQCQbPDaJK2+AR4APQABAAAABQAAAFJF OiAAAAAAHgAxQAEAAAAHAAAATUlLRUdBAAAeAEFAAQAAAAUAAABTTVRQAAAAAB4AQkABAAAAFQAA AG1pa2VnYUBtaWNyb3NvZnQuY29tAAAAAAIBRwABAAAAKgAAAGM9dXM7YT0gO3A9ZGZwdDtsPVBU RE9HLTk5MDYwMjE4MjIyMVotMjY2AAAAHgBwAAEAAAARAAAASU1BUEVYVCBhdCBPc2xvPwAAAAAC AXEAAQAAABsAAAABvq0dt4ry4PMBGRAR07p+AKDJx00PAAFrr+AAHgAwQAEAAAAHAAAATUlLRUdB 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ietf-imapext@imc.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ietf-imapext@imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: I recall someone at the March IMAP interop putting together a list of candidate items for the WG. I thought it was Mike G., but he claims no knowledge of this. Would the guilty party please step forward with that list? From owner-ietf-imapext Wed Jun 2 14:36:31 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id OAA23697 for ietf-imapext-bks; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 14:36:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tide03.microsoft.com (firewall-user@tide03.microsoft.com [131.107.3.13]) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA23692 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 14:36:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: by tide03.microsoft.com; id OAA02939; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 14:37:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imail2.dns.microsoft.com(157.54.17.74) by tide03.microsoft.com via smap (V3.1) id xma002937; Wed, 2 Jun 99 14:37:39 -0700 Received: from red-imc-01.dns.microsoft.com ([157.54.4.91]) by imail2.microsoft.com (8.7.3/8.7.1) with ESMTP id OAA10356; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 14:53:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ptgate.dns.microsoft.com (PTGATE [172.30.236.86]) by red-imc-01.dns.microsoft.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2448.0) id MC9Q4AQP; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 14:37:28 -0700 Received: from PTROUTE.dfpt.extest.microsoft.com (PTROUTE [172.30.236.83]) by ptgate.dns.microsoft.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2448.0) id LFBL0RPT; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 14:37:33 -0700 Received: from PTDOG.dfpt.extest.microsoft.com ([172.30.236.159]) by PTROUTE.dfpt.extest.microsoft.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2031.2031.2); Wed, 2 Jun 1999 14:38:04 -0700 From: "Mike Gahrns (Platinum)" To: , Subject: RE: Proposed WG worklist from March IMC Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 14:38:03 -0700 Message-ID: <04855D0BAA0ED311BA7800A0C9C74D0F0FB728@PTDOG.dfpt.extest.microsoft.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_2009A_01BEAD05.8609BF20" content-class: urn:content-classes:message/mail X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <04855D0BAA0ED311BA7800A0C9C74D0F0FB728@PTDOG.dfpt.extest.microsoft.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Jun 1999 21:38:04.0053 (UTC) FILETIME=[31F3DC50:01BEAD40] Sender: owner-ietf-imapext@imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_2009A_01BEAD05.8609BF20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I believe the original proposed charter for the IMAPEXT WG was to cover SORT, Annotate and ACLs. I did not put together that list, but it sounds look a good list to me. -----Original Message----- From: Lyndon.Nerenberg@messagingdirect.com [mailto:Lyndon.Nerenberg@messagingdirect.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 1999 2:27 PM To: ietf-imapext@imc.org Subject: Proposed WG worklist from March IMC I recall someone at the March IMAP interop putting together a list of candidate items for the WG. I thought it was Mike G., but he claims no knowledge of this. Would the guilty party please step forward with that list? ------=_NextPart_000_2009A_01BEAD05.8609BF20 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef; name="winmail.dat" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IgUVAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEgAEAKAAAAFJFOiBQcm9wb3NlZCBXRyB3 b3JrbGlzdCBmcm9tIE1hcmNoIElNQwByDQEFgAMADgAAAM8HBgACAA4AJgADAAMAGAEBIIADAA4A AADPBwYAAgAOACYABAADABkBAQmAAQAhAAAANUFGRDVGNkYzMzE5RDMxMUJBN0UwMEEwQzlDNzRE MEYAVAcBA5AGABQKAAA8AAAACwACAAEAAAADACYAAAAAAAMALgAAAAAAAwA2AAAAAABAADkA0Hy6 MUCtvgEeAD0AAQAAAAUAAABSRTogAAAAAB4AMUABAAAABwAAAE1JS0VHQQAAHgBBQAEAAAAFAAAA U01UUAAAAAAeAEJAAQAAABUAAABtaWtlZ2FAbWljcm9zb2Z0LmNvbQAAAAACAUcAAQAAACoAAABj PXVzO2E9IDtwPWRmcHQ7bD1QVERPRy05OTA2MDIyMTM4MDNaLTY2NwAAAB4AcAABAAAAJAAAAFBy b3Bvc2VkIFdHIHdvcmtsaXN0IGZyb20gTWFyY2ggSU1DAAIBcQABAAAAGwAAAAG+rT8VK1LV4RMZ MhHTun4AoMnHTQ8AAC4lQAAeADBAAQAAAAcAAABNSUtFR0EAAB4AP0ABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAA HgBAQAEAAAAVAAAAbWlrZWdhQG1pY3Jvc29mdC5jb20AAAAAHgAdDgEAAAAkAAAAUHJvcG9zZWQg V0cgd29ya2xpc3QgZnJvbSBNYXJjaCBJTUMAAgEJEAEAAACeAgAAmgIAALIDAABMWkZ1/RgixwMA CgByY3BnMTI14jIDQ3RleAVBAQMB9/8KgAKkA+QHEwKAD/MAUARWPwhVB7IRJQ5RAwECAGNo4QrA c2V0MgYABsMRJfYzBEYTtzASLBEzCO8J97Y7GB8OMDURIgxgYwBQMwsJAWQzNhZQC6YgSRAgYmVs CJB2ZSDMdGgdcAWwaWcLgAdAJCBwA2BwbxQQZCA/E9IOsAXAAhAFwB2SSU0AQVBFWFQgV0dIIHdh BCB0bx7gb4MdYAXAU09SVCwQwNhubm8BkA6wIABwHtBAQUNMcy4gHOFkbmke0CHxHlB1BUAg4Gcv FCAdoB+SIiAgHTBzdNUhsGIjwWkFQHMIYCJwkwQgF7BvayJQIGcmIP8e0CTSINIHgCLhCqIKhAqA Ki0oYk8d5k0HkHNhFyQQKGMnpEYDYTogTLZ5InACIC4HwBggbh0QuHJnQAeBKXELgGcjMFEYIGN0 LgWgbSekW3cAwAMQIOA6Ks8r3wNwXa8npAZgAjAqoFcJgG4HkGhkYXkhsEolwB1wMBIyIbAxOTJA IDI6oDI3IFBNJ6RULcCTJWAUIGYtB3BhcA7BUkAHcGMuBbBnMDV17GJqLJEqoFAediByBbB+aybT A1IF0ArAE9Af4UP/J6onpBzwLIEHQAMgJaAHgP8CICJBI9EdoTdmIBAlYAIw9wSQHoAjonQsMSPo JmAm0/xvZiekOVAicCNAIiIlcPxlbQQgH3YgcCLgHPAdkBkIYGdoJVMgok1pa+8dcD9QJRQdoWML YT6QJ6TJIfAgayHwd2wJgCQQrz0xHYEEACLgVwhgbB7Q6R2SZ3UtkXkeUB8RRKHvQsAgsB1wJPBl O6AfcSCgtwsgIJAlcGgnpCSHPyekAn1IEAAAHgA1EAEAAABJAAAAPDA0ODU1RDBCQUEwRUQzMTFC QTc4MDBBMEM5Qzc0RDBGMEZCNzI4QFBURE9HLmRmcHQuZXh0ZXN0Lm1pY3Jvc29mdC5jb20+AAAA AB4AQhABAAAAKgAAADwxOTk5MDYwMjIxMjcuUEFBMDU4MDlAcmVtYnJhbmR0LmVzeXMuY2E+AAAA AwCAEP////8LAPIQAQAAAAsA9BAAAAAACwD1EAAAAAALAPYQAAAAAEAABzCMnVUyQK2+AUAACDCm xFwyQK2+AQMA3j+vbwAAAwDxPwkEAAAeADhAAQAAAAcAAABNSUtFR0EAAB4A+j8BAAAAFQAAAFN5 c3RlbSBBZG1pbmlzdHJhdG9yAAAAAB4AOUABAAAAAgAAAC4AAAACAfs/AQAAAB4AAAAAAAAA3KdA yMBCEBq0uQgAKy/hggEAAAAAAAAALgAAAAMA/T/kBAAAAwAZQAAAAAADABpAAAAAAAMACVkBAAAA HgA3gIYDAgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYBAAAAHAAAAGMAbwBuAHQAZQBuAHQALQBjAGwAYQBzAHMAAAAB AAAAIQAAAHVybjpjb250ZW50LWNsYXNzZXM6bWVzc2FnZS9tYWlsAAAAAB4AWYCGAwIAAAAAAMAA AAAAAABGAQAAABgAAAByAGUAdAB1AHIAbgAtAHAAYQB0AGgAAAABAAAAIwAAADxtaWtlZ2FAZGZw dC5leHRlc3QubWljcm9zb2Z0LmNvbT4AAAsAWIEIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAA6FAAAAAAAA AwBwgQggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAUoUAACdqAQAeAHGBCCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAABU hQAAAQAAAAQAAAA5LjAAHgCmgQggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAOIUAAAEAAAABAAAAAAAAAB4A p4EIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAADeFAAABAAAAAQAAAAAAAAAeAKiBCCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAA RgAAAAA2hQAAAQAAAAEAAAAAAAAAAwC4gQggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAAYUAAAAAAAALAL2B CCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAADhQAAAAAAAAMAwoEIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAABGFAAAA AAAAAwDOgQggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAGIUAAAAAAAAeANmBhgMCAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgEA AAAUAAAAeAAtAG0AaQBtAGUAbwBsAGUAAAABAAAALQAAAFByb2R1Y2VkIEJ5IE1pY3Jvc29mdCBN aW1lT0xFIFY1LjAwLjIwMTQuMjExAAAAAB4A2oGGAwIAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAQAAACwAAAB4AC0A bwByAGkAZwBpAG4AYQBsAGEAcgByAGkAdgBhAGwAdABpAG0AZQAAAAEAAAA9AAAAMDIgSnVuIDE5 OTkgMjE6Mzg6MDQuMDA1MyAoVVRDKSBGSUxFVElNRT1bMzFGM0RDNTA6MDFCRUFENDBdAAAAAAsA 24EIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAAaFAAAAAAAAAwDcgQggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAEIUA AAAAAAALACkAAAAAAAsAIwAAAAAAAwAGEDHw8k8DAAcQ+gEAAAMAEBAAAAAAAwAREAAAAAAeAAgQ AQAAAGUAAABJQkVMSUVWRVRIRU9SSUdJTkFMUFJPUE9TRURDSEFSVEVSRk9SVEhFSU1BUEVYVFdH V0FTVE9DT1ZFUlNPUlQsQU5OT1RBVEVBTkRBQ0xTSURJRE5PVFBVVFRPR0VUSEVSVEhBAAAAAAIB fwABAAAASQAAADwwNDg1NUQwQkFBMEVEMzExQkE3ODAwQTBDOUM3NEQwRjBGQjcyOEBQVERPRy5k ZnB0LmV4dGVzdC5taWNyb3NvZnQuY29tPgAAAAC5Kg== ------=_NextPart_000_2009A_01BEAD05.8609BF20-- From owner-ietf-imapext Wed Jun 2 15:00:15 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id PAA23857 for ietf-imapext-bks; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 15:00:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from darius.cyrusoft.com (darius.cyrusoft.com [206.31.218.194]) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA23853 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 15:00:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ephesus.cyrusoft.com (ephesus.cyrusoft.com [206.31.218.204]) by darius.cyrusoft.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA24781; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 18:01:18 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 18:00:09 -0400 From: Cyrus Daboo To: "Mike Gahrns (Platinum)" , Lyndon.Nerenberg@messagingdirect.com, ietf-imapext@imc.org Subject: RE: Proposed WG worklist from March IMC Message-ID: <633473871.928346409@ephesus.cyrusoft.com> In-Reply-To: <04855D0BAA0ED311BA7800A0C9C74D0F0FB728@PTDOG.dfpt.extest.microsoft.com> Originator-Info: login-id=daboo; server=imap.cyrusoft.com:431 X-Mailer: Mulberry (Win32) [2.0.0a2, s/n S1-000001] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-ietf-imapext@imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: --On Wednesday, June 02, 1999, 2:38 PM -0700 "Mike Gahrns (Platinum)" wrote: > I believe the original proposed charter for the IMAPEXT WG was to cover > SORT, Annotate and ACLs. I did not put together that list, but it > sounds look a good list to me. The last charter we had was the one posted to the list by John Myers (I've quoted it below - obviously the target dates are wrong). This needs to be taken over by the WG chair (Pete?) and processed through the usual IETF channels, after discussion/approval on this list. > From: John Gardiner Myers > To: ietf-imapext@imc.org > Subject: Proposed charter > Date-Sent: 08/06/98, 3:17 PM -0700 > > To remind people, the proposed charter is as follows: > > Chair(s): > > TBD > > Mailing Lists: > > General discussion: ietf-imapext@imc.org > To Subscribe: ietf-imap-request@imc.org > Archive: http://www.imc.org/ietf-imapext/ > > > Description of Working Group: > > The IETF IMAP extensions Working Group shall revise and publish > standards-track extensions to IMAP4 for performing the following > functions: > > 1) Access Control Lists > 2) Sorting > 3) Threading > 4) Message-level annotations > > Revising the base IMAP4rev1 specification is out of the scope of this > WG. > > > Goals and Milestones: > > August 98 Approve charter > > Dec 98 Submit revised ACL spec to IESG > > Mar 99 Submit revised Sorting/Threading spec(s) to IESG > > August 99 Submit annotation spec to IESG --On Friday, April 10, 1998, 1:48 PM -0700 John Gardiner Myers wrote: > I'll propose the following addition to the charter: > > Revising the base IMAP4rev1 spec is out of the scope of this WG. -- Cyrus From owner-ietf-imapext Tue Jun 22 09:47:38 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id JAA07674 for ietf-imapext-bks; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 09:47:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtprich.nortel.com ([192.135.215.8]) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA07628; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 09:46:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zrchb213.us.nortel.com (actually zrchb213) by smtprich.nortel.com; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 11:48:05 -0500 Received: by zrchb213.us.nortel.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 11:47:56 -0500 Message-ID: <456E6DB7180ED3118A670000F8BDCA290A959B@zcard00p.ca.nortel.com> From: "Glenn Parsons" To: "'Dmitry Rubinstein'" Cc: imap@u.washington.edu, "'ietf-imap-voice@imc.org'" , "'ietf-imapext@imc.org'" , "'vpim-l@ema.org'" Subject: RE: Oslo IETF meeting Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 11:47:50 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ietf-imapext@imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: Dmitry, > I'd like to know what will be the agenda of the WG(s), that will > deal with IMAP issues. In particular I'd like to know whether > the following two drafts are going to be discussed: > > 2. draft-ema-vpim-imap-00 (VPIM over IMAP) > I hope to have a slightly updated version of this available soon based on the various comments to date. The goal of this draft is to list the possible options to solve various requirements we have noted for retrieving voice messages over IMAP. > I'd appreciate it if whoever is preparing the agenda (assuming > such preparations are being done) will tip us on the major > points that are to be discussed. The agendas are only due within > two weeks and will probably be written on the last night, but > still... > At previous meetings, the view was that this was sufficiently different that we should create another list (IMAP-Voice) and have it discussed in a different IETF session. I'd be happy to discuss it in IMAPEXT if folks wanted to talk about this and revisit if it should be in the charter. We will likely mention this draft in passing in the VPIM meeting -- though we won't have time to look at any details. Cheers, Glenn. From owner-ietf-imapext Wed Jun 23 15:42:45 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id PAA21045 for ietf-imapext-bks; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 15:42:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from resnick1.qualcomm.com (resnick1.qualcomm.com [206.139.85.98]) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA21041 for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 15:42:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from resnick2.qualcomm.com (206.139.85.99) by resnick1.qualcomm.com with ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 3.0a8); Wed, 23 Jun 1999 17:45:35 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: resnick@resnick1.qualcomm.com Message-Id: X-Mailer: Eudora [Macintosh version 4.2b??] Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 17:45:33 -0500 To: IMAP Extensions From: Pete Resnick Subject: Fwd: 45th IETF: IMAPEXT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-ietf-imapext@imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: --- begin forwarded text Return-Path: X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 18:36:24 -0400 To: Pete Resnick From: Marcia Beaulieu Subject: 45th IETF: IMAPEXT Cc: Keith Moore , Pätrik Faltström Mime-Version: 1.0 IMAPEXT is scheduled as follows: Thursday, July 15 at 1300-1500 other groups scheduled at that time: roamops, issll, ldapext, saag, mobileip, iptel Please submit an agenda for this meeting as soon as possible to agenda@ietf.org The deadline for submitting an agenda is July 1 at 1200 ET. Thanks, Marcia --- end forwarded text -- Pete Resnick Eudora Engineering - QUALCOMM Incorporated Ph: (217)337-6377 or (619)651-4478, Fax: (619)651-1102 From owner-ietf-imapext Mon Jun 28 10:12:47 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id KAA28183 for ietf-imapext-bks; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 10:12:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from darius.cyrusoft.com (darius.cyrusoft.com [206.31.218.194]) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA28179 for ; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 10:12:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ephesus.cyrusoft.com (ephesus.cyrusoft.com [206.31.218.204]) by darius.cyrusoft.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA10190; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 13:16:04 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 13:16:45 -0400 From: Cyrus Daboo To: ietf-imapext@imc.org cc: IMAP@u.washington.edu Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-daboo-imap-view-00.txt Message-ID: <2862869525.930575805@ephesus.cyrusoft.com> Originator-Info: login-id=daboo; server=imap.cyrusoft.com X-Mailer: Mulberry (Win32) [1.4.4b2, s/n S1-000001] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-imapext@imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: Hi folks, A new internet draft is available at: This is the first cut at moving towards a standardised sorting mechanism for IMAP. The extension proposed in this draft is actually a more general extension that is used to allow a client to operate on a sub-set of messages (as determined right now by an IMAP SEARCH command) as opposed to the entire set of messages in the mailbox. Basically this extension introduces a couple of new commands, together with some new responses, including a new FETCH item called 'VIEW' which is the message's position in the 'sub-set' or 'view'. Clients can then access messages by their view position using a new VIEW command that takes FETCH (and other commands) as arguments (inthe same way as the UID command already present in IMAP4). It is proposed that a future SORT extension will be used with the VIEW mechanism to allow sub-setting of sort results and to allow clients to access the messages in sorted order as opposed to sequence number order. Thus this draft represents the first step towards the goal of a sort command acceptable to all - hopefully! BTW that the VIEW mechanism can be used with other types of sub-setting we might want to think about in the future (e.g. message threading based on message-id/in-reply-to etc). Note that this document proposes a mechanism different from that discussed by various groups at recent IETF and IMC interop meetings. I can post a list of reasons why we feel this approach is better if there is interest. --Cyrus Daboo From owner-ietf-imapext Mon Jun 28 10:53:42 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id KAA28504 for ietf-imapext-bks; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 10:53:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from metal.mcom.com (h-208-12-60-75.netscape.com [208.12.60.75]) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA28500 for ; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 10:53:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Netscape.COM ([208.12.60.75]) by metal.mcom.com (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA1AA0; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 10:56:33 -0700 Message-ID: <3777B74A.CB6B0ABE@Netscape.COM> Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 10:56:26 -0700 From: Mike Macgirvin Organization: The Rebel Alliance X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.6 sun4u) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Cyrus Daboo CC: ietf-imapext@imc.org, IMAP@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-daboo-imap-view-00.txt References: <2862869525.930575805@ephesus.cyrusoft.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-imapext@imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: This appears to have the side effect of limiting you to one view. Multiple active views would require extensive client polling, and the notification events would only be active on one of them. I'd like to propose a modest enhancement, where the client can provide a (client generated) view-id, and subsequent changes to that view are tagged with the view-id. This permits multiple active views. Granted, there is server overhead involved, but this is the price of moving it off the client in the first place. Having the client generate an ID is better than having to match an untagged response with a search string. C: A143 VIEW SET 0001 SEARCH FROM "Smith" S: * 172 EXISTS 0001 23 S: A143 OK VIEW SET completed C: A144 VIEW SET 0002 SEARCH FROM "Myboss" S: * 172 EXISTS 0001 23 0002 6 S: A144 OK VIEW SET completed It probably isn't necessary that the results be chained in the EXISTS response, i.e. S: 172 EXISTS 0001 23 S: 172 EXISTS 0002 6 would be just fine. This would alter other responses appropriately. This way mailbox events can trigger updates of any active views. Thinking one step further, something to shut down an active view would likely be desirable in this model. C: A145 VIEW REMOVE 0001 S: A145 OK VIEW 0001 FROM "Smith" removed If I'm missing something obvious and all this isn't necessary, please correct me. From owner-ietf-imapext Mon Jun 28 11:00:05 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id LAA28590 for ietf-imapext-bks; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 11:00:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from metal.mcom.com (h-208-12-60-75.netscape.com [208.12.60.75]) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA28586 for ; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 11:00:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Netscape.COM ([208.12.60.75]) by metal.mcom.com (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA1DAA; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 11:02:57 -0700 Message-ID: <3777B8D1.F8075111@Netscape.COM> Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 11:02:57 -0700 From: Mike Macgirvin Organization: The Rebel Alliance X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.6 sun4u) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Cyrus Daboo , ietf-imapext@imc.org, IMAP@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-daboo-imap-view-00.txt References: <2862869525.930575805@ephesus.cyrusoft.com> <3777B74A.CB6B0ABE@Netscape.COM> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-imapext@imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: Before somebody corrects me - yes I do know that EXISTS are untagged and require *. > It probably isn't necessary that the results be chained in the EXISTS > response, i.e. > S: * 172 EXISTS 0001 23 > S: * 172 EXISTS 0002 6 ............^ > would be just fine. From owner-ietf-imapext Mon Jun 28 11:01:17 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id LAA28614 for ietf-imapext-bks; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 11:01:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailgw1.netvision.net.il (mailgw1.netvision.net.il [194.90.1.14]) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA28609 for ; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 11:01:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from goofy-ex.icomverse.com (goofy-ex.icomverse.com [199.203.140.35]) by mailgw1.netvision.net.il (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA13781 for ; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 21:04:32 +0300 Received: by GOOFY_EX.QUANTUM.icomverse.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 21:03:30 +0300 Message-ID: <5C5BA40F28F1D211AAE200105A057CB0210FDB@GOOFY_EX.QUANTUM.icomverse.com> From: "Rubinstein, Dmitry" To: ietf-imapext@imc.org Subject: Client ID extension Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 21:03:28 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="koi8-r" Sender: owner-ietf-imapext@imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: Hi, everybody! There has been a long discussion regarding the need for on the imap@u.washington.edu mailing list (whose subscribers, if I'm not terribly misaken, are a superset of the current list's subscribers). The majority of speakers eventually supported the idea of adding Client ID extension and at least 3-4 developers expressed their willingness to add support to ClientID to their products. There is a draft that is about year old that describes the proposed extension. There was a talk of adding this extension to the charter of this WG. What does it take at this point to make it into a standard? TIA, -- Dmitry Rubinstein From owner-ietf-imapext Mon Jun 28 11:33:10 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id LAA29008 for ietf-imapext-bks; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 11:33:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU (koval@tomobiki-cho.cac.washington.edu [128.95.135.58]) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA29004 for ; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 11:33:09 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 11:14:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Crispin Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-daboo-imap-view-00.txt To: Mike Macgirvin cc: Cyrus Daboo , ietf-imapext@imc.org, IMAP@u.washington.edu In-Reply-To: <3777B74A.CB6B0ABE@Netscape.COM> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ietf-imapext@imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: My only comment about multiple simultaneous views is that this makes VIEW much more complicated to implement; and as such presents a barrier to prospective implementors. It may also contribute to the ongoing myth that IMAP is an expensive service to have on a machine. Nevertheless, this is just an observation and I don't oppose your proposal. Please bring it up at Oslo. From owner-ietf-imapext Mon Jun 28 11:34:08 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id LAA29020 for ietf-imapext-bks; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 11:34:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from darius.cyrusoft.com (darius.cyrusoft.com [206.31.218.194]) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA29015 for ; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 11:34:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ephesus.cyrusoft.com (ephesus.cyrusoft.com [206.31.218.204]) by darius.cyrusoft.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA10619; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 14:37:25 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 14:38:06 -0400 From: Cyrus Daboo To: Mike Macgirvin cc: ietf-imapext@imc.org, IMAP@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-daboo-imap-view-00.txt Message-ID: <2867750433.930580686@ephesus.cyrusoft.com> In-Reply-To: <3777B74A.CB6B0ABE@Netscape.COM> Originator-Info: login-id=daboo; server=imap.cyrusoft.com X-Mailer: Mulberry (Win32) [1.4.4b2, s/n S1-000001] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-ietf-imapext@imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: Hi Mike, --On Monday, June 28, 1999, 10:56 AM -0700 Mike Macgirvin wrote: > This appears to have the side effect of limiting you to one view. Multiple > active views would require extensive client polling, and the notification > events would only be active on one of them. > > I'd like to propose a modest enhancement, where the client can provide a > (client generated) view-id, and subsequent changes to that view are tagged > with the view-id. This permits multiple active views. Granted, there is > server overhead involved, but this is the price of moving it off the > client in the first place. Having the client generate an ID is better > than having to match an untagged response with a search string. Multiple views would be nice. I thought of doing something similar too. However, I concluded that the added complexity of handling multiple views is too much for now. It requires a lot more than just modifying EXISTS. One major problem is that messages can be in more than one view. One way to handle this would be to redefine the 'position' syntax to be a list of 'view number'/'view position' pairs. For example, an EXPUNGE for a message in view #0001 and view #0003 would end up as: a EXPUNGE * 1 EXPUNGE 1234 ((0001 1)(0003 4)) a OK My personal feeling is to keep VIEW simple for now and see how implementation experience goes. There's no reason why later we can't define a new command to deal with multiple named views and redefine the existing VIEW syntax appropriately. e.g. 'VIEW SET' would be augmented by a 'VIEW NAMEDSET' command that could redfine the 'position' formal syntax item to be an S-Expression list (or whatever), and require a view name in addition to the sub-command in a VIEW command. --Cyrus From owner-ietf-imapext Mon Jun 28 11:49:05 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id LAA29772 for ietf-imapext-bks; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 11:49:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from darius.cyrusoft.com (darius.cyrusoft.com [206.31.218.194]) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA29768 for ; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 11:49:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ephesus.cyrusoft.com (ephesus.cyrusoft.com [206.31.218.204]) by darius.cyrusoft.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA10743; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 14:52:20 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 14:53:00 -0400 From: Cyrus Daboo To: "Rubinstein, Dmitry" , ietf-imapext@imc.org Subject: Re: Client ID extension Message-ID: <2868644759.930581580@ephesus.cyrusoft.com> In-Reply-To: <5C5BA40F28F1D211AAE200105A057CB0210FDB@GOOFY_EX.QUANTUM.icomverse.com> Originator-Info: login-id=daboo; server=imap.cyrusoft.com X-Mailer: Mulberry (Win32) [1.4.4b2, s/n S1-000001] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-ietf-imapext@imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: --On Monday, June 28, 1999, 9:03 PM +0300 "Rubinstein, Dmitry" wrote: > Hi, everybody! > > There has been a long discussion regarding the need for on the > imap@u.washington.edu mailing list (whose subscribers, if I'm not terribly > misaken, are a superset of the current list's subscribers). The majority > of speakers eventually supported the idea of adding Client ID extension > and at least 3-4 developers expressed their willingness to add support to > ClientID to their products. There is a draft that is about year old that > describes the proposed extension. There was a talk of adding this > extension to the charter of this WG. What does it take at this point to > make it into a standard? > Well there is no formal charter for this group as yet. That ought to be the first item on the agenda for Oslo! I think the client ID extension should be straightforward enough that it can be moved forward via the mailing list rather than needing to be added to the future WG. All it really needs is for someone to update the document and to start the formal review process over again. Perhaps Tim (original author) could be persuaded to do this? --Cyrus From owner-ietf-imapext Mon Jun 28 12:42:36 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id MAA00881 for ietf-imapext-bks; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 12:42:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from metal.mcom.com (h-208-12-60-75.netscape.com [208.12.60.75]) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA00877 for ; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 12:42:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Netscape.COM ([208.12.60.75]) by metal.mcom.com (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA4E97; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 12:45:32 -0700 Message-ID: <3777D0DB.2105A918@Netscape.COM> Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 12:45:31 -0700 From: Mike Macgirvin Organization: The Rebel Alliance X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.6 sun4u) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mark Crispin CC: Cyrus Daboo , ietf-imapext@imc.org, IMAP@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-daboo-imap-view-00.txt References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-imapext@imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: Mark Crispin wrote: > > My only comment about multiple simultaneous views is that this makes VIEW much > more complicated to implement; and as such presents a barrier to prospective > implementors. It may also contribute to the ongoing myth that IMAP is an > expensive service to have on a machine. > > Nevertheless, this is just an observation and I don't oppose your proposal. > Please bring it up at Oslo. I agree totally that it makes server implementation of this feature non-trivial. Without it I think the client ends up having to work just as hard by issuing multiple SEARCH and/or VIEW commands everytime anything in the mailbox changes - or doing all the work client-side. We can do that today without requiring any extensions, but it's hardly efficient. So this draft presents a way to avoid a lot of client overhead as long as you only define or "activate" only one view. Having worked a lot with views in the past, one is not very typical. The bell curve fits around 5 and 20 at least on INBOX and it's reasonable for a human to want to have all their views active in the sense that message counts are propogated in as near to real time as possible. I'll see if somebody else from here will be at Oslo and ask that they present these arguments - unfortunately, I have other obligations. From owner-ietf-imapext Mon Jun 28 14:53:28 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id OAA02316 for ietf-imapext-bks; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 14:53:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alms1.fw.att.com (alms1.att.com [192.128.167.146]) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA02312 for ; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 14:53:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dns.maillennium.att.com ([135.25.114.99]) by alms1.fw.att.com (AT&T IPNS/MS-2.2) with ESMTP id RAA07272 for ; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 17:56:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from att.com (hansenpc.bl-els.att.com[135.25.111.58](may be forged)) by maillennium.att.com (labmail) with SMTP id <19990628215414un129110fie>; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 21:54:14 +0000 Message-ID: <3777EEA4.A650B2F7@att.com> Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 17:52:36 -0400 From: Tony Hansen Reply-To: tony@att.com Organization: AT&T Laboratories X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Cyrus Daboo CC: ietf-imapext@imc.org, IMAP@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-daboo-imap-view-00.txt References: <2862869525.930575805@ephesus.cyrusoft.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-imapext@imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: Cyrus Daboo wrote: > > A new internet draft is available at: > > > This is the first cut at moving towards a standardised sorting mechanism > for IMAP. The extension proposed in this draft is actually a more general > extension that is used to allow a client to operate on a sub-set of > messages (as determined right now by an IMAP SEARCH command) as opposed to > the entire set of messages in the mailbox. > > Basically this extension introduces a couple of new commands, together with > some new responses, including a new FETCH item called 'VIEW' which is the > message's position in the 'sub-set' or 'view'. Clients can then access > messages by their view position using a new VIEW command that takes FETCH > (and other commands) as arguments (inthe same way as the UID command > already present in IMAP4). > ... Our major problem with this proposal is not an issue with the extension itself. Instead, we have an issue with its impact on server performance when dealing with LARGE user populations (hundreds of thousands or millions). Each proposal such as this does increase the server load. Tony Hansen tony@att.com From owner-ietf-imapext Mon Jun 28 15:34:28 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id PAA03186 for ietf-imapext-bks; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 15:34:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU (harley@tomobiki-cho.cac.washington.edu [128.95.135.58]) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA03182 for ; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 15:34:27 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 15:05:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Crispin Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-daboo-imap-view-00.txt To: tony@att.com cc: Cyrus Daboo , ietf-imapext@imc.org, IMAP@u.washington.edu In-Reply-To: <3777EEA4.A650B2F7@att.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ietf-imapext@imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: On Mon, 28 Jun 1999 17:52:36 -0400, Tony Hansen wrote: > Our major problem with this proposal is not an issue with the extension > itself. Instead, we have an issue with its impact on server performance > when dealing with LARGE user populations (hundreds of thousands or > millions). Each proposal such as this does increase the server load. There's a tradeoff in all of these things. Some people consider the functionality of VIEW to be very important, and have blocked SORT and THREAD unless this functionality is provided. One of their concerns is that the SORT command uses communication bandwidth; for example, sorting a 2000 message mailbox results in a response that is 8900 octets long. SORT and THREAD are very important for UW since these extensions make a *HUGE* difference in Pine performance. So, it's important for us to get these concerns addressed, and preferably in an extensible mechanism. From owner-ietf-imapext Mon Jun 28 15:56:24 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id PAA03378 for ietf-imapext-bks; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 15:56:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tide03.microsoft.com (firewall-user@tide03.microsoft.com [131.107.3.13]) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA03374 for ; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 15:56:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: by tide03.microsoft.com; id PAA11702; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 15:59:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imail2.dns.microsoft.com(157.54.17.74) by tide03.microsoft.com via smap (V3.1) id xma011698; Mon, 28 Jun 99 15:59:40 -0700 Received: from red-imc-01.dns.microsoft.com ([157.54.4.91]) by imail2.microsoft.com (8.7.3/8.7.1) with ESMTP id QAA05586 for ; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 16:15:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from red-imc-01.dns.microsoft.com (RED-IMC-01 [157.54.4.91]) by red-imc-01.dns.microsoft.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2448.0) id NPXNA4FB; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 15:58:28 -0700 Received: from 172.30.236.86 by red-imc-01.dns.microsoft.com (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Mon, 28 Jun 1999 15:57:46 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time) Received: from PTROUTE.dfpt.extest.microsoft.com (PTROUTE [172.30.236.83]) by ptgate.dns.microsoft.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2448.0) id NS1J2BVL; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 15:57:49 -0700 Received: from PTDOG.dfpt.extest.microsoft.com ([172.30.236.159]) by PTROUTE.dfpt.extest.microsoft.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2054.0054.0); Mon, 28 Jun 1999 15:58:39 -0700 Received: from mikega9 ([157.59.255.62]) by PTDOG.dfpt.extest.microsoft.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2054.0054.0); Mon, 28 Jun 1999 15:58:39 -0700 Message-ID: <000601bec1b9$b9925c80$3eff3b9d@dns.microsoft.com> From: "Mike Gahrns" To: References: <2868644759.930581580@ephesus.cyrusoft.com> Subject: Re: Client ID extension Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 15:58:23 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Jun 1999 22:58:39.0054 (UTC) FILETIME=[C293F6E0:01BEC1B9] Sender: owner-ietf-imapext@imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: Cyrus Daboo writes: > I think the client ID extension should be straightforward enough that it > can be moved forward via the mailing list rather than needing to be added > to the future WG. All it really needs is for someone to update the document > and to start the formal review process over again. Perhaps Tim (original > author) could be persuaded to do this? This echos a previous comment I had regarding the charter of the WG. I'd prefer that the WG concentrate on the "larger" issues already proposed: SORT, ANNOTATE and ACL. Smaller extensions will probably be better served taking them outside of the WG. In regards to ID, I think the original proposal was pretty much there. The dissention seemed to resolve around whether the premise of allowing this functionality was good or bad. Given that there seems to be reasonable number of people who concur that this type of functionality would be useful, moving the extension forward should hopefully be rather straight foward with only minor changes needed. I am not sure what Tim's thoughts are on moving this forward, but I would be willing to help with this if he is unable to. From owner-ietf-imapext Mon Jun 28 17:23:50 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id RAA04483 for ietf-imapext-bks; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 17:23:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from darius.cyrusoft.com (darius.cyrusoft.com [206.31.218.194]) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA04479 for ; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 17:23:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from creamofwheat-5.slip.andrew.cmu.edu (CREAMOFWHEAT-5.SLIP.ANDREW.CMU.EDU [128.2.120.5]) by darius.cyrusoft.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA11810; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 20:27:08 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 20:28:06 -0400 From: Cyrus Daboo To: tony@att.com cc: ietf-imapext@imc.org, IMAP@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-daboo-imap-view-00.txt Message-ID: <155182.3139590486@creamofwheat-5.slip.andrew.cmu.edu> In-Reply-To: <3777EEA4.A650B2F7@att.com> Originator-Info: login-id=daboo; server=imap.cyrusoft.com:431 X-Mailer: Mulberry (MacOS) [2.0.0a3, s/n S1-000001] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-ietf-imapext@imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: --On Mon, Jun 28, 1999 5:52 PM -0400 Tony Hansen wrote: > Our major problem with this proposal is not an issue with the extension > itself. Instead, we have an issue with its impact on server performance > when dealing with LARGE user populations (hundreds of thousands or > millions). Each proposal such as this does increase the server load. Actually the hope for this proposal (wrt to sorting) is to REDUCE the overall server load by removing the need for a client to download the envelopes of all messages in order to sort them for the end-user. It should also reduce client load and indeed allow thin-clients to present sorted or sub-set views without having to do much work. -- Cyrus From owner-ietf-imapext Mon Jun 28 18:34:45 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id SAA05484 for ietf-imapext-bks; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 18:34:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alms1.fw.att.com (alms1.att.com [192.128.167.146]) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA05480 for ; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 18:34:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dns.maillennium.att.com ([135.25.114.99]) by alms1.fw.att.com (AT&T IPNS/MS-2.2) with ESMTP id VAA07781 for ; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 21:37:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from maillennium.att.com ([135.197.86.177](may be forged)) by maillennium.att.com (labmail) with SMTP id <19990629013550un129110j2e>; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 01:35:51 +0000 Message-ID: <37781577.37D9BAF1@maillennium.att.com> Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 00:38:15 +0000 From: steve spear X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.36 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ietf-imapext@imc.org CC: IMAP@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-daboo-imap-view-00.txt References: <155182.3139590486@creamofwheat-5.slip.andrew.cmu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-asci