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Re: draft-ietf-ltans-dssc-00 comments





----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas Kunz" <thomas.kunz@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: "Carl Wallace" <CWallace@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: <ietf-ltans@xxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 7:10 AM
Subject: Re: draft-ietf-ltans-dssc-00 comments


Hello Carl,

sorry for the late answer.

Carl Wallace schrieb:
Here are a few comments on DSSC. I'll send an off list email with some editorial comments.

- In section 4.1, the fifth element in the sequence should be named SuitableAlgorithm to be consistent with the schema in Appendix B

OK


- The draft should provide some guidance regarding constraints. For example, should one define key size constraints per public key algorithm or per each signature algorithm?

That is a decision controlled by the Hosting Entity's Operations Policies and needs to be retained as such. The answer is that both methods should work IMHO.

> For policy brevity,

which IS NOT a good thing here... Policy is what allows NEA to be used in a number of different scenario's

the former would be better. Perhaps an alternative would be to bind constraints and validity periods within SuitableAlgorithm.

I would also prefer the definition of constraints per public key algorithm.

But how is that to be represented? Is it part of the internal policy controlled by SuitableAlgorithm or where then is it enumerated?


- Section 5 should include processing for constraints.
OK

- The spec should prohibit including multiple instances of the same algorithm identifier w/ the same constraints.

If they have those different policy contraints tagged to them then they are different policy instances. Hence it would be reasonable to have multiple policies around the same PKI model.


OK

- If an ASN.1 version is to be produced, using an enveloping signature would make the mapping to CMS easier.

OK. An ASN.1 version should come with the next version of the draft.

- The assumption in Section 3.2 that one must find an old policy in order to determine if an algorithm was valid at a point in the past is too complicated. Suitability definitions should accumulate in a single policy definition. An enterprise could maintain several policies. For example, one complete, one current and one past policy could be maintained.

Uh, policies could be setup based on Role and Responsibility Separation Models and as such its likely that similar policies would exist in the same NEA Domain(s).


In our notion, the policies are published by specific institutions (e.g. annually) and one policy represents the evaluations based on current knowledge (e.g. on current findings, RSA with 1024 bit key length could be valid until end of 2007, but next year a new policy could be published which states that RSA 1024 is valid until end of 2008). To expect, that a policy also contains all past evaluations of an algorithms could be error-prone.

Customized Policies are the creation of those that adopt the NEA system, but basic operations policies are what the framework should come out-of-the-bag with.

In our opinion, the question, if the evaluation of an algorithm in an old policy is different from that in the current policy is primarily important in law cases.

Nope... I dont think this has anything to do with "law cases". I think it has to do with logging and assurance models and that's about it. What's missing is to qualify NEA under the new Judge Grimm ruling so that NEA based testimnoy ius admissible into the US and Foreign Court's that support similar standards or MRA's.

You want to know what is missing here?

a.. Relevance; i.e. meets F.R.E. 401

So a process for determining relevancy of the information produced and its integrity is key.

a.. Authentication; i.e. meets F.R.E. 901

Authentication as to where the information came from is key. Also that the material submitted is what was authenticated meaning that content-integrity propcesses are mandatory as well.

a.. Hearsay (if offered for truth) i.e. meets  F.R.E 801

The mechanical processes for how this information is produced must be mapped out such that it can be demonstrated to a Court that this data is either beyond hear-say or that the heay-say exceptions in re statements against interest is brouught into play such that this evidence is admissible.

a.. Original or Duplicate i.e. meets F.R.E. 1001-1008

OK so is this the original data from the system or a copy/fake of it?

a.. Probative Value Outweighed by Prejudicial Value i.e. meets F.R.E. 403

This actually is a set of pre-built policy statements which are designed to meet the requirements of FRE403. These would be a part of the NEA boiler plate and would be the basis of NEA Data's being admitted into the Courts as proper Machine-Testimony.

As noted in the above list, these are the five key tests for Digital Evidence being admitted to the US Federal Courts. Of these probably 1,2, 3 and 4 are key tests. Test 5 would be something that would happen at hearing time if the rest of the submission actually meets the other tests and that the opposing counsel doesnt object to 'how it meets those tests' which this group is directly responsible for designing. otherwise each system fielded will have to be proven in Court under a DAUBERT type hearing and if that is true then the IETF will have totally failed there.

As to old policy and its review, the review of old policy relative to new policy should only come into play when a new system is installed into a network hosting NEA service-qualifications, or when an existing policy expires and a new one comes into play, and that only has to do with changes in the Entitlement and Logging Constraints for that "New Policy" relative to the old one.

And there you cannot trust, that the current policy correctly quotes past evaluations, instead you will have to look in the old policy.

Only if there is a policy saying that. I can think of any number of NEA scenario's where the current client doesnt care what the past policies were. So I disagree as to 'that the old policies will always need to be reviewed' or be maintained as 'reviewable'.


Best regards,
Thomas