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Re: DISCUSS: MUST reject in OCSPv1





I'd add "or return an error [e.g. unauthorized?]" to the end of '4' (to remain compliant in the presence of requests for unknown certs), but it is otherwise my dream scenario.


Michael Myers wrote:
Dave,

So how about:

1. If we can cycle v1 at Proposed (a big if); then

2. Define nonceUnsupported extension subject to
   the following semantics (I'm squeezing the
   words a bit but you'll get the drift)

3. Clients that send a nonce:

   a. MUST reject a non-nonced response
      if that response includes either the
      value "good" or "revoked" AND it fails
      to include the nonceUnsupported extension;

   b. Else, if such response includes the
      nonceUnsupported extension, clients
      MAY accept the response subject to the
      advice in the Security Considerations
      section of this document.

4. Conversely, if a server receives a nonced
   request but is unable to incorporate the
   nonce in its response, the server MUST
   include the nonceUnsupported extension.

Note that I made no distinction between "good", "revoked" or
"unknown" in #3.b or #4.  Thus, a plain nonceless response of
"good" or "revoked" is non-conformant, while a caveated response
is subject to the client's local security policy.

Does this seem a fair compromise?  Note well it's highly
dependent on cycling v1 at Proposed.

Mike





-----Original Message-----
From: David Engberg [mailto:dave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2003 10:58 AM
To: Michael Myers
Cc: ietf-pkix@xxxxxxx
Subject: Re: DISCUSS: MUST reject in OCSPv1




Michael Myers wrote:


There's a chance we maybe can if we reset 2560 back

to Proposed,


still call it v1 and let it cycle there for a

while. I've yet


to hear back from Russ on that one so I've been reluctant to
play that card.  I think what will be the

determining factor on


that potential course of action is if we can all

agree on the


technical content.  The number of implementors who would be
affected is still quite manageable.

This sounds good to me.




I suspect though there still will remain the core issue:
whether or not it is conformant in principle and in

the spirit


of the RFC to send a nonceless response to a nonced

request. I


would further refine that by saying any nonceless signed
response containing either "good" or "revoked".  I

could accept


"unknown" due to reasons of nonces not being supported as
indicated by a small extension to the protocol.

I read the nonce description in the RFC as the client asking for something that it WANTS as opposed to demanding something that it NEEDS. I.e. a nonce is one element in a list of things like nextUpdate, thisUpdate, producedAt, etc. that a client may use to decide on response acceptance based on the local security policy.

The local policy needs to take all of these factors
into account, and
the absence/presence of a nonce is one factor which
may help avoid a
specific type of attack.  The default, recommended,
behavior is that a
nonceless response should be rejected unless the
client has a darned
good reason for accepting the response based on other
factors (e.g. the
response comes with a signed letter from the cert's
issuer saying it is
safe [safer, IMHO, but that's a separate discussion]
to accept the
nonceless response for its certs).

It sounds like your interpretation is that the
presence of a nonce is
something the client NEEDS and that nonce absence
supercedes all other
policy considerations.  I don't think this is a
horrible interpretation,
but it does imply some limitations, as discussed.