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Re: Fwd: I-D Action: draft-melnikov-pop3-over-tls-01.txt




Chris, all,

Chris agreed to co-author the document, so these are my responses from the "co-author's" point of view.

18.08.2011 3:39, Chris Newman wrote:
From a technical viewpoint, I have two suggestions:

Add to section 2.1:

Servers that lack configuration to accept an X.509 client certificate for authentication purposes MUST NOT send a CertificateRequest handshake to the client
 during TLS negotiation.

Here I concur with Alexey that SHOULD NOT is fine to add such sentence.

Also in section 2.1:

OLD:
  SHALL use some other way to identify itself, e.g. USER and PASS
  commands.
NEW:
MAY close the connection or try a different authentication mechanism (e.g., USER
  and PASS commands).

It's a spec error to disallow a client configuration that requires use of client certificate authentication. For high security sites, a password fallback is not acceptable.

I'm fine with such change.



There are two general editorial problems: 1. issues that might cause problems during last call. 2. the text could be simplified in several places.

Here are some editorial suggestions:

In Abstract, OLD:
  This document specifies how the Post Office Protocol, Version 3
  (POP3) may be secured with Transport Layer Security (TLS) protocol,
  by establishing TLS layer connection directly before POP3
  transaction.  It updates RFC 1939 and RFC 2595.
NEW:
  This document specifies use of Transport Layer Security (TLS) on
port 995 to protect Post Office Protocol, Version 3. It updates RFC 2595.

Discussion: This no longer changes any rules in RFC 1939, so I see no reason to update that specification -- perhaps best to avoid the debates about "does this update spec XXX?" and "what does it mean for a proposed standard to update a full standard?" during last call.

I'm OK to remove "updates RFC 1939". However, the current abstract, compared with the proposed, seems to be clearer.


Introduction (simplify) NEW:
  The Post Office Protocol version 3 (POP3) [RFC1939], is an
  application-layer protocol used by local e-mail clients to retrieve
  e-mail from a remote server over a TCP/IP connection.  It supports
  a simple download-and-delete model for access to remote
  mailboxes (also called a maildrop).

  As POP3 transfers sensitive information, there is a need
  for privacy protection. Transport Layer Security (TLS) [RFC5246] and
its deprecated predecessor Secure Sockets Layer (SSL) [RFC6101] are commonly
  used for this purpose.

[Discussion: I believe it's incorrect to state POP3 was intended to be in the clear -- I recall someone, perhaps Marshall Rose telling me the intention was to use whatever privacy mechanism the lower layers defined (e.g. IPsec). SSL/TLS became necessary because IPsec wasn't sufficiently deployable. Also it's inaccurate to say TLS is the only mechanism -- that will just annoy security geeks during last call who have used KPOP and IPsec].

So this change seems OK.


Two mechanisms to protect POP3 using TLS have been deployed. One negotiates
  TLS within POP3 (also known as upgrading to TLS) [RFC2595].  The other
  starts TLS prior to starting the POP3 application layer. The latter
mechanism (called "POP3S" throughout this document) has not been previously
  specified in an RFC. This document specifies POP3S.

The analogy with HTTP, I'm convinced, is very useful; however, some of the improvements you propose here will be incorporated. (Later:) I've left the following text:

   Two ways of protecting POP3 with TLS have been deployed (like 2 ways
   of securing HTTP [RFC2616]; see below).  The first includes
   establishing TLS layer connection during the POP3 transaction (also
   known as upgrading to TLS) [RFC2595].  The other one involves
   establishing TLS connection directly before establishing POP3
   transaction.  Unlike the former, this way (called "POP3S" throughout
   this document) has not been previously specified in an RFC.  (In the
   case with HTTP the first way is specified in RFC 2817 [RFC2817]; the
   second one - in RFC 2818 [RFC2818].)

   This document specifies POP3S.  It updates RFC 2595 [RFC2595] (see
   Section 2.5 for justification).  This memo also updates the
   registration of the TCP well-known port 995, used with POP3S.


  RFC 6186 [RFC6186] specifies use of DNS SRV records [RFC2782]
to locate email access services. It supports both POP3S and POP3 upgraded
  to TLS. For more information, refer to Section 3.3 of RFC 6186.

Section 2.1:

  to verify server's certificate.  Upon successful negotiation all data
           ^
          the
...
  SASL EXTERNAL mechanism, which is defined in Appendix A of RFC 4422
  ^
 the

  authentication using X.509 certificate MUST support SASL EXTERNAl
                             ^^^^^^^^^^^                   ^^^^^^^^
                             certificates                  EXTERNAL


  convention on using X.509 certificate for authentication, the client
                            ^^^^^^^^^^^
                            certificates


These changes seem fine.


Suggest removing this:
  Anyway, as soon as the client authenticates itself, and the server
  verifies its credentials, they both enter TRANSACTION state and begin
  exchanging POP commands and replies.
or rewording as:
  As with POP3, POP3S enters TRANSACTION state after the server sends
  a +OK response to an authentication command.

This might be considered that POP3S is a protocol that is different from POP3. However, I'll try to change this sentence so that it gets shorter and clearer. I think the following is fine:

   After the client has received the +OK response to the authentication
   command, they both enter TRANSACTION state.


OLD:
  Please note that per RFC 6176 [RFC6176], neither clients nor servers
  must perform attempts to negotiate use of SSL 2.0.
NEW:
  SSL 2.0 MUST NOT be used for POP3S, see RFC 6176 [RFC6176] for details.

OK.



Section 2.3:

  terminate its part of connection without waiting a response from the
                                                  ^
                                                 for
Section 2.4 (simplify):

POP3S uses port 995. Section 4 updates the IANA registration for port 995.

This was changed to:

   POP3S uses the default port 995.  Section 4 updates the IANA
   registration for this port.


Section 2.5 (simplify/clarify):

Section 7 of RFC 2595 [RFC 2595] expresses concerns about use of a separate port. The concern about port usage does not apply as port 995 was previously registered. RFC 6186 mitigates the other concerns. The usefulness of POP3S
  outweighs the mitigated flaws so the statement in section 7 of RFC 2595
  discouraging use of pop3s is rescinded.

Discussion: this makes it is clear why RFC 2595 is amended but does not declare the advice in RFC 2595 invalid, thus avoiding the entire debate about whether separate-port or upgrade-to-TLS is better. Best to avoid unnecessary debates when getting a spec standardized...

You're the author of RFC 2595, so you know better :-). So I'll change this text.


Section 3 (simplify):

  POP3S uses TLS [RFC5246] to provide protection from eavesdropping and
tampering with POP3 protocol content. The security considerations of TLS [RFC5246]
  and those related to server identity verification [RFC6125]
  [I-D.melnikov-email-tls-certs] apply.

OK.

Mykyta


        - Chris