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RE: [MMUSIC] Thinking about best-effort encryption



> You'll get very significant pushback from nework operators because 
> of increase demand on proxies.
>
> It also means that it's unsecure at answer time.

Er, I don't think so.  If you offer RTP/SAVP, and it's rejected by the
answerer (called party), the called party's phone won't ring at all.

> It's a valid mechanism, but I don't think it's  the best we can do.

Due to HERFP, I consider re-inviting a mechanism that cannot work.  Unless
we fix HERFP or deprecate forking.  

> I think IKR is right:  we need to answer the very basic question 
> about do we "HAVE to use SAVP" to mean best effort.
> 
> The draft that Hadriel and I did assume "No". 
> Flemming's draft assume "Yes". 

A correction: both drafts put RTP/AVP in the "m=" line.

The offer in draft-andreasen-mmusic-sdp-capability-negotiation-01.txt, on
page 16, is here (I show the interesting lines with "**"):

           v=0 
           o=- 25678 753849 IN IP4 128.96.41.1 
           s=  
           c=IN IP4 128.96.41.1 
           t=0 0 
     **    m=audio 3456 RTP/AVP 0 18  
           a=sqn: 0 
     **    a=cdsc: 1 audio RTP/AVP 0 18  
     **    a=cdsc: 3 audio RTP/SAVP 0 18  
           a=capar: 1 a=crypto:1 AES_CM_128_HMAC_SHA1_32    
              inline:NzB4d1BINUAvLEw6UzF3WSJ+PSdFcGdUJShpX1Zj|2^20|1:32  
           a=pcfg: c=3,4 a=1 
           a=pcfg: c=1,2  

The answer is described and shown on page 17:

        Bob receives the SDP offer from Alice. Bob supports RTP, but not 
        SRTP, and hence he accepts the potential configuration for RTP 
        provided by Alice: 

           v=0 
           o=- 24351 621814 IN IP4 128.96.41.2 
           s=  
           c=IN IP4 128.96.41.2 
           t=0 0 
     **    m=audio 4567 RTP/AVP 0 18  
           a=acfg: c=1,2 

-d


> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Paul Kyzivat [mailto:pkyzivat@xxxxxxxxx] 
> > Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 2:17 PM
> > To: EKR
> > Cc: ietf-rtpsec@xxxxxxxxxxxx; mmusic@xxxxxxxx
> > Subject: Re: [MMUSIC] Thinking about best-effort encryption
> > 
> > While doing an update or reinvite may seem inelegant, I think 
> > it makes reasonable sense for the best effort mode. It 
> > certainly solves some problems regarding early media.
> > 
> > 	Paul
> > 
> > EKR wrote:
> > > As people will recall, in the RTPSEC meeting in Montreal 
> it became 
> > > clear that we needed some way to support best-effort encryption. 
> > > Loosely speaking, it seems to me that there are two major 
> > ways to do this:
> > > 
> > > - Have nothing in the signalling and probe in the media plane
> > >   as ZRTP does in bump in the wire mode.
> > > - Have something in the offer that says "I will speak SRTP"
> > >   but doesn't require it.
> > > 
> > > There have been a bunch of different suggestions about how 
> > to do this 
> > > (draft-andreasen-mmusic-sdp-capability-negotiation-01,
> > > draft-kaplan-mmusic-best-effort-srtp-01, 
> > draft-zimmermann-avt-zrtp-02, 
> > > etc...). Regardless of which key management protocol we 
> ultimately 
> > > choose, we need to sort the fundamental architectural issue of:
> > > 
> > >    Does the signalling (SDP) have to reflect RTP/SAVP?
> > > 
> > > 
> > > If the answer to this question is "Yes", then we either need to:
> > > 
> > > 1. Have some convenient way to offer multiple profiles (Flemming's
> > >    draft surveys the space of options here).
> > > 2. Do an UPDATE with RTP/SAVP for every secure connection. I get
> > >    the impression people find this distasteful.
> > > 
> > > If the answer is "No", then you can simplify the 
> > offer/answer exchange 
> > > by having the signal that you will do security in an 
> a-line, but at 
> > > the cost of having the profile no longer reflect what's 
> on the wire.
> > > 
> > > In either case, it seems like deciding this architectural 
> issue is 
> > > something we need to do before we spend a lot of time 
> > discussing the 
> > > details of mechanisms.
> > > 
> > > -Ekr
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
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> > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mmusic
> > > 
> > 
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