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Re: ZRTP comments part 1: congestion





I wanted to comment on the "packets lost at the beginning of the flows" topic. I've talked to quite a few people about this including the transport ADs, some IAB folks, and some other IESG folks - there were all very doubtful that this is actually happening. You can test it yourself by trying to load a web page. If the first SYN packet was lost, it would be 3 seconds before the first retransmission and the delay of opening the page would be very noticeable. When trying to trace back where this rumor came from, it seems that some times the first packet that a device sends on a LAN may be lost due to issues in how devices are processing ARPs. However, we aren't talking about the first packet sent from the interfaces of a device here, we are looking at problems on new flows for a device that is already done previous network transactions.

When Phil first told me about this, I asked him to send me some flows or point me to a network where I could try it out since it seemed surprising to me. I'm still waiting for any more information about where this occurs. I can't find any extensive discussion in AVT but the discussions I can find is back in Nov 1 on the thread "ZRTP Initial packet loss". On that thread, Dan asked you for some details for a sort of test set up where we could duplicate or observe this. Still waiting to see any reply to that too. Actually the one reply to that was from another implementor of ZRTP saying they are not seeing this problem.

Cullen <with my individual hat on>



On Mar 17, 2007, at 5:33 PM, Alan Johnston wrote:

Actually, this has been extensively discussed in AVT - I would refer you to the mail archives meeting minutes for the full text. To summarize, it is a practical observation that packet loss at the very start of a media session is often very high - perhaps 50% for the first half dozen packets. Today, things like early media are affected by this, and sometimes the start of a Hello. If ZRTP (or DTLS as you will discover with implementation) happens prior to media flow, you will need to deal with this packet loss or the key exchange time will extend much longer than you would predict on paper.