From: Leonid Yegoshin (egoshin@genesyslab.com)
Date: Wed Nov 19 1997 - 18:59:56 CST
Hi,
>From: sommar@algonet.se (Erland Sommarskog)
>
>Please, there's no reason for this massive cc:ing. We are all on
>the mailing list, aren't we?
>
I am sorry, I didn't see that there is not Reply-To: in headers...
>Leonid Yegoshin <egoshin@genesyslab.com> writes:
>
>> The idea of using UTF-8 has yet one bad consequence - all draft use MIME
>>only and I can implement MIME-only software without problems. But if we
>>insert possibility for UTF-8 for 8-bit group names we should have
>>an additional task with processing of UTF-8 in news software.
>>
>> Moreover, it can be another problem if we adopt UTF-8 default:
>>if some article pass UTF-8 host then newsgroup names CAN be converted
>>from MIME to UTF-8 by some energetic news manager !
>>(Especaily if he has UTF-8 compatible local host)
>
>I'm not sure that I understand what you are saying here, but I like
If I have NEWS-es in MIME-only coding, then in real I am needed to
change news processing software like nntpd/innd/cnews etc, to adopt
8-bit transfer of MIME mails body (it is already DONE in most IP providers !).
Also I can implement very simple a transfer of e-mail to newsgroup
and back software without any problem of charset encoding.
Of course, I am needed to support article presentation in non-English
language but it is needed anycase and also already done.
But if we approve UTF-8 then there is headache of translation
between MIME-encoded and/or UTF-8-encoded header Newsgroup: and newsgroup
list itself. I am needed to have FULL table of translation for
all languages. To complicate the problem - news processing software
could have a task to choose - thats type of encoding should be used
for particular language.
>to point out that our previous discussions have led to the conclusion
>that the Newsgroup header more or less must have a fixed charset,
>and that UTF-8 is the only reasonable choice. The newsgroup name
Excuse me, I subscribed to this mail list from date of announcement
of "creation" of USEFOR in IETF-Announce. It was Fri, 07 Nov 1997 10:48:08 -0500
Can you repeat this arguments for all subscribed after this date ?
(Mail archive is big enough)
Just now, I am personaly think that newsgroup name should be
in the charset of its creation. It can help newsreader to determine
the preferenced charset of discussion without explisit request from user.
>must be passed untouched from server to server, and from server to
>client, with the only exception that client will need to convert
>forth and back to the client charset.
>
Yes.
>Any attempt to include a coding à la RFC2047 is likely to lead to
>names that are completely unbearable for anyone who is seeing the
>name with a non-MIME-capable tool - and that includes the sysadmin
>who might be grepping his active file. (Or any regular user who
>just telnets to port 119 and say LIST ACTIVE, as I do every once
>in a while.)
Hm-m, I don't understand you - if somebody has "a non-MIME-capable tool",
why you think that this tool can know and show UTF-8 ?
At least I can do a simple non-8-bit "grep" or so via active
file in MIME encoding, but try to do it with UTF-8 encoded file !
BTW, telnet with LIST ACTIVE can give you half-crypted MIME newsgroups
names. But what can be otherwise ? -- Yes, UTF-8 which may be not
representable on your host terminal, for exam for groups named in Chinese.
(You have not fonts for this charset, of course. If you _have_ -
- please replace Chinese with any other foreign language ;-)
- Leonid Yegoshin, LY22