From: Erland Sommarskog (sommar-usefor@algonet.se)
Date: Sat Aug 17 2002 - 15:27:54 CDT
=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Claus_F=E4rber?= (list-ietf-wg-apps-usefor@faerber.muc.de) writes:
> So you are explicitly claiming that if newsgroups are encoded with a
> Punycode-like encoding (which only uses characters currently allowed in
> newsgroup names), existing software will not be able:
>
> . access the newsgroup,
> . create new postings, and
> . create followups
Basically, yes. Because the names will not be understandble to the users,
the users will not find their way there.
> But UTF-8 does solve that problem in your opinion, although we know of
> existing software that does produce the "funniest" results.
For Latin scripts, UTF-8 names will still be understandable in most
cases.
Note also that some newsreaders are actually capable to present UTF-8
names today without the slightest change. This also applies to software
such as mine non-RFC2047 capable mail reader.
To wit, all newsreaders that write to a TTY. They only need TTY, for
instance a Telnet client, that is able to present UTF-8.
But never there will be a TTY that presents RFC2047 or Punycode.
> So you are claiming that leagacy software has problems handling mail
> that has some RFC 2047-encoded phrases in it?
They can't present the data correctly, nor can they find data you are
looking for.
> This is only true with languages using scripts where most characters are
> found in ASCII (most Western European languages).
> With other scripts, choosing the wrong charset for display makes
> everything completly unreadable. This becomes especially problematic in
> environments where there are multiple charsets to encode a script, for
> example the situation for Cyrillic messages was a complete mess.
Nevertheless, I still receive spam in Russian or Chinese which does not
include any charset specification. I've included an example below.
(Of which Andrew will only see traces.)
> > Your blathering about crashing software shows that you have not under-
> > stood what mail and news is good for: mail and news are good for
> > communication between humans.
>
> So it does not matter if software used by humans crashes or directs
> messages to the wrong destination (or /dev/null).
Eh? Since that would damage human communication, it does of course matter.
But that doesn't mean that the presentation issue matter. There was
simply a choice to make of what to sacrifice. And I am not all sure
that bending over backwards to keep old sendmail servers alive was the
right choice. It might have meant more pain then, but it would probably
have meant less pain now.
> This shows that you have never had a look at Punycode. Punycode encodes
> ASCII characters as-is, so for most Western languages the words *are*
> quite readable. For most non-Western languages, which traditionally
> don't use UTF-8, there's not much difference between UTF-8 and Punycode.
So what does se.test.rДksmЖrgЕs become in Punycode?
But you are right, I haven't looked at it. Just the mere fact that
it is Yet Another Encoding makes my interest low.
-- Erland Sommarskog, Stockholm, sommar@algonet.seA copy of Spam in KOI-8 (probably) or Win-1251.
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