From owner-ietf-weird Sun Feb 28 19:14:59 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id TAA27152 for ietf-weird-bks; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 19:14:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from sunny.pacific.net.sg (sunny.pacific.net.sg [203.120.90.127]) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA27146 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 19:14:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from pop3.pacific.net.sg (pop3.pacific.net.sg [203.120.90.45]) by sunny.pacific.net.sg with ESMTP id LAA08496; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 11:20:04 +0800 (SGT) Received: from iciiu.org (dhcp17.apricot99.pacific.net.sg [203.120.27.17]) by pop3.pacific.net.sg with ESMTP id LAA08563; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 11:20:03 +0800 (SGT) Message-ID: <36DA07C2.5234E073@iciiu.org> Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 11:21:38 +0800 From: Michael Sondow X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.36 i586) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Burke Chris-CCB007 CC: "'uswg@isi.edu'" , "'ietf-weird@imc.org'" Subject: Re: A draft for WEIRD discussion... References: <01333279EB7AD111B6BD00805FA74071DBF8A4@s-il06be.corp.mot.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-weird@imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: Burke Chris-CCB007 wrote: > I believe that we need to move IETF content onto the Web, > and use real line drawings and graphics, to reach this audience. I agree wholeheartedly with this, especially the use of drawings and graphics. The following, from your draft, are especially appropriate, IMO. "It can now be argued that the text-only RFC format is, itself, a source of cultural bias in the dissemination of information about the internet: a cultural bias toward people who know what a PDP-11 is. While not in possession of hard data, the author argues that relatively few who today consider themselves internet users have ever used a "text editor" or have access to a "text printer". The abundance of FAQs [MARSHALL99] [SQUARE96] written to explain the emoticons :-) used in e-mail illustrate the difficulty that end-users have with use of typewriter graphics to convey "images". The ability to render a 256 color bitmap is as pervasive on today's computers as was the ability to render text on a VT100 when current RFC rules were drafted." "The author believes that a restricted subset of HTML, including support for bit-mapped graphics images, is a good starting point." This sounds about right. Certainly bit-mapped images are now universal. OTOH, I think the matter of using links in RFCs in HTML needs to be very carefully considered. The "requirements" section of your draft seems quite adequate. Can't think of a thing to add, except possibly a requirement relating to the editors, for example that the format(s) employed be standardized and that they be accessible to all members of the working groups concerned with editing them. From owner-ietf-weird Sun Feb 28 19:29:23 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id TAA27749 for ietf-weird-bks; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 19:29:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from uhura.concentric.net (uhura.concentric.net [206.173.118.93]) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA27741 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 19:29:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from marconi.concentric.net (marconi [206.173.118.71]) by uhura.concentric.net (8.9.1a/(98/12/15 5.12)) id WAA17135; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 22:33:06 -0500 (EST) [1-800-745-2747 The Concentric Network] Received: from concentric.net (ts001d11.det-mi.concentric.net [206.173.109.23]) by marconi.concentric.net (8.9.1a) id WAA24644; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 22:33:04 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36DA0A2B.8CCD32BA@concentric.net> Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 22:31:55 -0500 From: Darrin Jones X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Burke Chris-CCB007 CC: WEIRD Subject: Re: A draft for WEIRD discussion... References: <01333279EB7AD111B6BD00805FA74071DBF8A4@s-il06be.corp.mot.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-weird@imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: I think your draft is right on for the most part. A restricted subset of HTML sounds good also but I'm not so sure about XML (yet). Burke Chris-CCB007 wrote: > To get some advance discussion going, I wrote this draft. I'd like to revise > this based on your input - especially in the requirements section - and make > it an official "working group draft" once the group charters. So, without > further ado, here's , "Real Users Don't Read > RFCs". > > Have a great weekend! > > Chris Burke > > <> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Name: draft-burke-realusers-00.txt > draft-burke-realusers-00.txt Type: Plain Text (text/plain) > Encoding: quoted-printable From owner-ietf-weird Tue Mar 2 20:27:28 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id UAA00100 for ietf-weird-bks; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 20:27:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtpott1.nortel.ca (smtpott1.NortelNetworks.com [192.58.194.78]) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA29996 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 20:27:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from zcard00m.ca.nortel.com by smtpott1.nortel.ca; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 23:31:39 -0500 Received: by zcard00m.ca.nortel.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 23:31:36 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Chris Hare" To: Burke Chris-CCB007 , "'uswg@isi.edu'" , "'ietf-weird@imc.org'" Subject: RE: A draft for WEIRD discussion... Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 23:31:31 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain X-Orig: Sender: owner-ietf-weird@imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: I certainly agree also. As a relative newcomer to this forum, and having read a lot of RFCs over the years, I know of many situations where a picture would have certainly helped. I don't know much about XML yet (I have to go read that), but I too would caution the use of HTML links in the RFC documents themselves, unless the information is readily available on the IETF website itself. Many users find the fact that links get out of date quite frustrating, as I think we all do, and while it does lead a trail of bread crumbs, will the end users be able to follow the trail? Chris Security Architect Nortel Networks > -----Original Message----- > From: Burke Chris-CCB007 [SMTP:CCB007@NAmerica.mot.com] > Sent: Friday, February 26, 1999 2:50 PM > To: 'uswg@isi.edu'; 'ietf-weird@imc.org' > Subject: A draft for WEIRD discussion... > > Hi! For those of you getting this through IETF-WEIRD@IMC.ORG, welcome to > the > Web Evangelism of Internet-Related Developments (WEIRD) mailing list. > > I'll be hosting the WEIRD BOF at Minneapolis. My name is Chris Burke, and > I > help manage Motorola's participation in internet and application standards > bodies from my office in sunny Seattle, WA. > > One of our goals at the WEIRD BOF will be to decide whether to charter a > working group. My interest in this working group is to make information > about the IETF and the internet more accessible to typical, non-technical > internet users. I believe that we need to move IETF content onto the Web, > and use real line drawings and graphics, to reach this audience. For me, > the > open issues on the charter are about what content we use as a starting > point. Maybe you have a different idea about the charter, and I'd like to > hear it at the BOF to see if we can find some common ground. > > To get some advance discussion going, I wrote this draft. I'd like to > revise > this based on your input - especially in the requirements section - and > make > it an official "working group draft" once the group charters. So, without > further ado, here's , "Real Users Don't Read > RFCs". > > Have a great weekend! > > Chris Burke > > <> << File: draft-burke-realusers-00.txt > >> From owner-ietf-weird Wed Mar 24 23:17:41 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id XAA21073 for ietf-weird-bks; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 23:17:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from shark.ubique.co.il (shark.ubique.co.il [199.203.79.171]) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA21062 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 23:17:38 -0800 (PST) From: ittay@ubique.com Received: by shark.ubique.co.il(Lotus SMTP MTA Internal build v4.6.2 (651.2 6-10-1998)) id C225673F.002895E3 ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 09:23:18 +0200 X-Lotus-FromDomain: UBIQUE To: ietf-weird@imc.org Message-ID: Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 09:23:17 +0200 Subject: Starting to roll the ball Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-ietf-weird@imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: I'm going to try and start rolling the ball, since I don't see any trafic on the mailing list (then again, my mail reader may be malfunctioning again). 1. Where are the minutes from the last IETF meeting? 2. Here I go again, being a nudnik ("nood nick", yiddish for a pain in the neck) : Audience, audience, audience (the target of the group's efforts). Any thoughts? Ittai Golde, Ubiqe Ltd. From owner-ietf-weird Thu Mar 25 08:07:17 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id IAA02150 for ietf-weird-bks; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 08:07:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from isrv3.pa.vix.com (isrv3.pa.vix.com [204.152.184.182]) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA02146 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 08:07:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from bb.rc.vix.com (bb.rc.vix.com [204.152.187.11]) by isrv3.pa.vix.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) via ESMTP id IAA16090; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 08:14:15 -0800 (PST) env-from (April_Marine@isc.org) Received: from localhost (amarine@localhost) by bb.rc.vix.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) via SMTP id IAA03537; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 08:14:14 -0800 (PST) env-from (April_Marine@isc.org) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 08:14:14 -0800 (PST) From: April Marine To: ittay@ubique.com cc: ietf-weird@imc.org Subject: Re: Starting to roll the ball In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ietf-weird@imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: Hello you nudnik! :-) The minutes have a deadline of next Friday (I think that's right), so they will be coming soon. And I agree with your emphasis on audience (and so did everyone else at the WG). Others can correct me, but the upshot of the meeting is that we agreed to start with a finite audience that we understand and can reliably create content for: the new IETF attendee or someone who wants to know more about the breadth of the IETF (as it's hard to scope it even if you attend). Since the IETF does work in many areas of the Internet that are of general interest, once we have that beginning, it MAY be possible to expand it to a more general audience, but that won't be addressed for at least a year. Chris and I have the action to re-draft the charter and will run that by the group. In the meantime, any ideas welcome! regards, April Marine On Thu, 25 Mar 1999 ittay@ubique.com wrote: > > > > I'm going to try and start rolling the ball, since I don't see any trafic > on the > mailing list (then again, my mail reader may be malfunctioning again). > > 1. Where are the minutes from the last IETF meeting? > 2. Here I go again, being a nudnik ("nood nick", yiddish for a pain in the > neck) : Audience, audience, audience (the target of the group's efforts). > > Any thoughts? > > Ittai Golde, > Ubiqe Ltd. > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- April Marine Director of Support Services +1.650.779.6006 Internet Engines Incorporated april_marine@iengines.net From owner-ietf-weird Fri Mar 26 11:50:32 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id LAA19548 for ietf-weird-bks; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 11:50:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from perfekt.perfekt.net (root@perfekt.net [205.230.176.10]) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA19544 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 11:50:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from iciiu.org (slip-ppp-1-227.perfekt.net [205.230.176.227]) by perfekt.perfekt.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA05992; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 14:59:09 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36FBE66C.4D0BED61@iciiu.org> Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 14:56:28 -0500 From: Michael Sondow X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [fr] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ietf-weird@imc.org CC: ittay@ubique.com Subject: Re: Starting to roll the ball References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-ietf-weird@imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: ittay@ubique.com a écrit: > > I'm going to try and start rolling the ball, since I don't see any trafic > on the > mailing list Good idea! I was starting to wonder, myself, if this project had gotten lost or thrown out in spring cleaning :) > Audience, audience, audience (the target of the group's efforts). Ah-ha! You've put your finger on the sore spot. Who, indeed, will be the audience for the (planned) "weird" pages? If some pre-determined methods for reaching out to new and not-so-new Internet users aren't worked out, the new documents won't get out to any more people than the old ones did (i.e. not many). I will be glad to put links to them, once they are published, on the ICIIU's website, where I already have links to the present text-based FYIs (and especially the glossaries). But without some sort of campaign, I doubt if many others will link to them. Discussion? From owner-ietf-weird Fri Mar 26 12:07:01 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id MAA19644 for ietf-weird-bks; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 12:07:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from perfekt.perfekt.net (root@perfekt.net [205.230.176.10]) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA19640 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 12:06:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from iciiu.org (slip-ppp-1-227.perfekt.net [205.230.176.227]) by perfekt.perfekt.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA06132; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 15:15:27 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36FBEA3E.E136D220@iciiu.org> Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 15:12:46 -0500 From: Michael Sondow X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [fr] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: April Marine CC: ietf-weird@imc.org Subject: Re: Starting to roll the ball References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-weird@imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: Hi, April! How was Minneapolis? Pretty cold out there? April Marine wrote: > > Others can correct me, but the upshot of the meeting is that we > agreed to start with a finite audience that we understand and can reliably > create content for: the new IETF attendee or someone who wants to know > more about the breadth of the IETF I, for one, will be sorry if the weird pages are left to circulate only among the IETF attendees. The FYIs are of great general usefulness; I steer everyone I know who asks those sorts of question to them, with inevitable success. The weird pages will have an even greater applicability, and should be made universally available, IMHO. And that means an informational and linkage campaign. Why, even many of the RFC mirror sites don't carry the FYIs. And I recently discovered that my ISP, who doesn't belong to the IETF, had never seen the ones on networking tools, and is very happy to have them, since they are of such great utility to isolated ISPs who are having problems configuring their DN records. What a shame it will be if these new pages aren't more widely distributed! From owner-ietf-weird Fri Mar 26 13:27:51 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id NAA20340 for ietf-weird-bks; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 13:27:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from isrv3.pa.vix.com (isrv3.pa.vix.com [204.152.184.182]) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA20336 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 13:27:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from bb.rc.vix.com (bb.rc.vix.com [204.152.187.11]) by isrv3.pa.vix.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) via ESMTP id NAA15138; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 13:34:58 -0800 (PST) env-from (April_Marine@isc.org) Received: from localhost (amarine@localhost) by bb.rc.vix.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) via SMTP id NAA01149; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 13:34:58 -0800 (PST) env-from (April_Marine@isc.org) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 13:34:58 -0800 (PST) From: April Marine To: Michael Sondow cc: April Marine , ietf-weird@imc.org Subject: Re: Starting to roll the ball In-Reply-To: <36FBEA3E.E136D220@iciiu.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ietf-weird@imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: > Hi, April! How was Minneapolis? Pretty cold out there? > Actually, surprisingly nice! And I was geared up for the Arctic! > > I, for one, will be sorry if the weird pages are left to circulate > only among the IETF attendees. The FYIs are of great general Oh no, they will be totally available to anyone. The topic is just initially restricted to general IETF info because that is what we have the best scope on. I think once we get that up, we can extend it to more general background info as well. > and linkage campaign. Why, even many of the RFC mirror sites don't > carry the FYIs. And I recently discovered that my ISP, who doesn't All FYIs are RFCs, so any site that mirrors all the RFCs has the FYIs, although they may not have them in a handy separate directory! later! A. From owner-ietf-weird Fri Mar 26 14:14:05 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id OAA20785 for ietf-weird-bks; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 14:14:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailgw1a.lmco.com (mailgw1a.lmco.com [192.31.106.7]) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA20781 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 14:14:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from emss02g01.ems.lmco.com (emss02g01.ems.lmco.com [198.7.15.39]) by mailgw1a.lmco.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA11482; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 15:20:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from emss02i01.ems.lmco.com ([198.7.15.35]) by lmco.com (PMDF V5.1-10 #20543) with ESMTP id <0F9800CJO3EXIM@lmco.com>; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 15:20:57 -0700 (MST) Received: by emss02i01.ems.lmco.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 15:20:48 -0700 Content-return: allowed Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 15:18:57 -0700 From: "Pruitt, Dace" Subject: RE: Starting to roll the ball To: "'April Marine'" , Michael Sondow Cc: ietf-weird@imc.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-type: text/plain Sender: owner-ietf-weird@imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: April Possibly we need two teams. One to create a central site and one to publicize it and verify links throughout all of the other sites, would that help? Dace Pruitt l Enterprise Service Desk / Enterprise Service Center 303-927-1106 -----Original Message----- From: April Marine [SMTP:April_Marine@isc.org] Sent: 3/26/99 2:35 PM To: Michael Sondow Cc: April Marine; ietf-weird@imc.org Subject: Re: Starting to roll the ball > Hi, April! How was Minneapolis? Pretty cold out there? > Actually, surprisingly nice! And I was geared up for the Arctic! > > I, for one, will be sorry if the weird pages are left to circulate > only among the IETF attendees. The FYIs are of great general Oh no, they will be totally available to anyone. The topic is just initially restricted to general IETF info because that is what we have the best scope on. I think once we get that up, we can extend it to more general background info as well. > and linkage campaign. Why, even many of the RFC mirror sites don't > carry the FYIs. And I recently discovered that my ISP, who doesn't All FYIs are RFCs, so any site that mirrors all the RFCs has the FYIs, although they may not have them in a handy separate directory! later! A. From owner-ietf-weird Fri Mar 26 14:17:31 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id OAA20833 for ietf-weird-bks; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 14:17:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from ib.rc.vix.com (ib.rc.vix.com [204.152.187.22]) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA20828 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 14:17:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from bb.rc.vix.com (bb.rc.vix.com [204.152.187.11]) by ib.rc.vix.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) via ESMTP id OAA00959; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 14:24:39 -0800 (PST) env-from (April_Marine@isc.org) Received: from localhost (amarine@localhost) by bb.rc.vix.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) via SMTP id OAA01837; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 14:24:38 -0800 (PST) env-from (April_Marine@isc.org) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 14:24:38 -0800 (PST) From: April Marine To: "Pruitt, Dace" cc: ietf-weird@imc.org Subject: RE: Starting to roll the ball In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ietf-weird@imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: In the long run, the publicity would be great. But I see that as a "phase 2" thing. I am really interested in just getting to some CONTENT, then we can take the next step (advertising, enhanching, etc. etc.). I am in the process of getting some webspace set up at my new company and coordinating with the IETF Secretariat. We should have a "home" soon! April On Fri, 26 Mar 1999, Pruitt, Dace wrote: > April > Possibly we need two teams. One to create a central site and one to > publicize it and verify links throughout all of the other sites, would that > help? > > Dace Pruitt > l > Enterprise Service Desk / Enterprise Service Center > 303-927-1106 > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: April Marine [SMTP:April_Marine@isc.org] > Sent: 3/26/99 2:35 PM > To: Michael Sondow > Cc: April Marine; ietf-weird@imc.org > Subject: Re: Starting to roll the ball > > > > Hi, April! How was Minneapolis? Pretty cold out there? > > > > Actually, surprisingly nice! And I was geared up for the Arctic! > > > > > I, for one, will be sorry if the weird pages are left to circulate > > only among the IETF attendees. The FYIs are of great general > > Oh no, they will be totally available to anyone. The topic is just > initially restricted to general IETF info because that is what we > have the > best scope on. I think once we get that up, we can extend it to > more > general background info as well. > > > and linkage campaign. Why, even many of the RFC mirror sites don't > > carry the FYIs. And I recently discovered that my ISP, who doesn't > > All FYIs are RFCs, so any site that mirrors all the RFCs has the > FYIs, > although they may not have them in a handy separate directory! > > later! > A. > ------------------------------------------------------------------- April Marine Director of Support Services +1.650.779.6006 Internet Engines Incorporated april_marine@iengines.net From owner-ietf-weird Fri Mar 26 15:35:33 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id PAA21484 for ietf-weird-bks; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 15:35:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from perfekt.perfekt.net (root@perfekt.net [205.230.176.10]) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA21480 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 15:35:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from iciiu.org (slip-ppp-1-227.perfekt.net [205.230.176.227]) by perfekt.perfekt.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA08102 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 18:44:21 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36FC1B35.A73E26E4@iciiu.org> Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 18:41:41 -0500 From: Michael Sondow X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [fr] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ietf-weird@imc.org Subject: Re: Starting to roll the ball References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-ietf-weird@imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: April Marine a écrit: > > We should have a "home" soon! Will there be a house-warming party (with gifts of .gif and .jpg files and html editors)? From owner-ietf-weird Fri Mar 26 16:07:35 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id QAA21742 for ietf-weird-bks; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 16:07:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from ib.rc.vix.com (ib.rc.vix.com [204.152.187.22]) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA21737 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 16:07:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from bb.rc.vix.com (bb.rc.vix.com [204.152.187.11]) by ib.rc.vix.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) via ESMTP id QAA03905; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 16:14:42 -0800 (PST) env-from (April_Marine@isc.org) Received: from localhost (amarine@localhost) by bb.rc.vix.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) via SMTP id QAA08464; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 16:14:41 -0800 (PST) env-from (April_Marine@isc.org) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 16:14:41 -0800 (PST) From: April Marine To: Michael Sondow cc: ietf-weird@imc.org Subject: Re: Starting to roll the ball In-Reply-To: <36FC1B35.A73E26E4@iciiu.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by mail.proper.com id QAA21738 Sender: owner-ietf-weird@imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: > April Marine a écrit: > > > > We should have a "home" soon! > > Will there be a house-warming party (with gifts of .gif and .jpg > files and html editors)? > Well, fruit baskets would be appreciated! :-) April From owner-ietf-weird Wed Mar 31 20:15:19 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id UAA27863 for ietf-weird-bks; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 20:15:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from perfekt.perfekt.net (root@perfekt.net [205.230.176.10]) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA27847 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 20:15:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from iciiu.org (slip-ppp-1-187.perfekt.net [205.230.176.187]) by perfekt.perfekt.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA14214; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 23:16:52 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3702F284.290FBA57@iciiu.org> Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 23:13:56 -0500 From: Michael Sondow X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [fr] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "U.S.W.G. list" CC: WEIRD Subject: Hello out there!? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-weird@imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: Knock-knock. Anyone home? Is everyone too busy with spring cleaning (and other spring-ish things) to post a message once in a while? Are there minutes from Minneapolis? Is WEIRD progressing? Have any content decisions been taken?? Text editing to be done? Format discussion? Speaking of which, is there a relationship between the discussion of formats for WEIRD and the current RFC format discussion going on via the poised list? (Frankly, I hope not. The poised discussion of RFC formats seems to be mired in disagreements, from the little I've been able to glean.) Anyway, happy Easter to everyone (a little prematurely), and I hope there'll be some chirpings on these lists before the summer arrives. :) From owner-ietf-weird Thu Apr 1 12:32:16 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id MAA03142 for ietf-weird-bks; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 12:32:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from motgate2.mot.com (motgate2.mot.com [129.188.136.102]) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA03138 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 12:32:15 -0800 (PST) Received: [from pobox.mot.com (pobox.mot.com [129.188.137.100]) by motgate2.mot.com (MOT-motgate2 1.0) with ESMTP id OAA01671 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 14:33:53 -0600 (CST)] Received: [from s-il06al.corp.mot.com (s-il06al.corp.mot.com [199.2.152.60]) by pobox.mot.com (MOT-pobox 2.0) with ESMTP id OAA10599 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 14:32:26 -0600 (CST)] Received: by s-il06al.corp.mot.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2417.0) id ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 14:32:24 -0600 Message-ID: <01333279EB7AD111B6BD00805FA74071DBF9B5@s-il06be.corp.mot.com> From: Burke Chris-CCB007 To: "'Michael Sondow'" Cc: WEIRD Subject: WEIRD: (resurfacing...blub...blub) Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 14:32:13 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2417.0) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ietf-weird@imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: Hi everybody! Will send out the WEIRD minutes today, sorry to have gone silent for a week or so. I'm very excited about the progress we made in Minneapolis on roughing out consensus on the audience and kinds of content that WEIRD will develop. Happy Passover / Good Friday / April Fools / Blue Moon / Month-of-the-Area-Director / ??? Chris Burke > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Sondow [SMTP:msondow@iciiu.org] > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 1999 8:14 PM > To: U.S.W.G. list > Cc: WEIRD > Subject: Hello out there!? > > Knock-knock. Anyone home? Is everyone too busy with spring cleaning > (and other spring-ish things) to post a message once in a while? > From owner-ietf-weird Thu Apr 1 14:20:38 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id OAA04038 for ietf-weird-bks; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 14:20:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from ftpbox.mot.com (ftpbox.mot.com [129.188.136.101]) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA04034 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 14:20:36 -0800 (PST) Received: [from pobox.mot.com (pobox.mot.com [129.188.137.100]) by ftpbox.mot.com (MOT-ftpbox 1.0) with ESMTP id QAA12338 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 16:20:48 -0600 (CST)] Received: [from s-il06am.corp.mot.com (s-il06am.corp.mot.com [199.5.78.61]) by pobox.mot.com (MOT-pobox 2.0) with ESMTP id QAA06926 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 16:20:45 -0600 (CST)] Received: by s-il06am.corp.mot.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2417.0) id ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 16:20:44 -0600 Message-ID: <01333279EB7AD111B6BD00805FA74071DBF9B7@s-il06be.corp.mot.com> From: Burke Chris-CCB007 To: "'ietf-weird@imc.org'" Cc: "'uswg@isi.edu'" , "'pietb@nic.mil'" Subject: draft minutes of WEIRD BOF Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 16:20:44 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2417.0) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ietf-weird@imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: Big thanks to Piet Barber for recording the raw minutes! The minutes below for incorporation in the proceedings, leave out a lot of the blow-by-blow discussion but capture the flavor and direction (I hope). Any last-minute comments on these appreciated as well. Chris Burke mailto:ccb007@email.mot.com --- Minutes of the Web Evangelism of Internet-Related Developments BOF IETF - Minneapolis, MN - March, 1999 recorded by Chris Burke / Piet Barber The Web Evangelism of Internet-Related Developments (WEIRD) BOF met to gauge the level of interest in forming an IETF working group to develop web-based content, including a combination of less-technical language, formatted text, and graphics, to better inform people of IETF activities and the relationships among various IETF activities. User Services A-D April Marine described background discussions over the past year that led up to the BOF, and BOF chair Chris Burke presented a draft charter. Chris then opened the floor to charter bashing and scope discussion. Discussion gravitated toward two issues: selection of a target audience, and identification of kinds of info useful to that audience that the IETF could produce responsibly and without undue speculation. The strawman target audience was internet users, but consensus developed around a target audience of internet generalists such as ISPs, book authors, and people new to the IETF. A structured discussion on roughly 15 distinct content types followed, with the group classifying each type either in scope or out of scope. Content types specifically in scope include: current IETF WG and BOF activities, BOF historical information, IAB / IESG / Secretariat issues and topics of interest and their impact. Content types specifically out of scope include: information interpreting trends in internet engineering and standards; IETF-related information that is editorial in nature. There was rough consensus that it was worth forming a working group to develop an IETF web site to address this audience and serve this content. Many open issues remain, not the least of which are defining specific milestones and that the WG does not produce a "document" in the traditional IETF sense. Charter and milestone discussion will continue on the WEIRD discussion list (mailto:ietf-weird@imc.org, mailto:ietf-weird-request@imc.org to subscribe) , with the objective of revising the proposed charter by end of April, 1999. From owner-ietf-weird Thu Apr 15 06:57:36 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id GAA18581 for ietf-weird-bks; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 06:57:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-relay1.idt.net (MAIL-RELAY1.IDT.NET [169.132.8.25]) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA18577 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 06:57:34 -0700 (PDT) From: tagc@datacaptureinstitute.com Received: from dci-web.datacaptureinstitute.com ([207.113.111.40]) by mail-relay1.idt.net (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8-RAPPER) with SMTP id JAA13621 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 09:58:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: by dci-web.datacaptureinstitute.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) id 85256754.004BFDF0 ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 09:50:02 -0400 X-Lotus-FromDomain: BCATS To: ietf-weird@imc.org Message-ID: <85256754.00499510.00@dci-web.datacaptureinstitute.com> Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 09:49:59 -0400 Subject: Newbie Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ietf-weird@imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: Greetings all; I read with interest the minutes posted in the pre-proceedings, which led me to subscribe to this list and inspect the archive. Although I am keenly interested in the IETF's activities, and read the RFC's when I can, I have not participated in any working groups. My present contribution is as a new ISOC member, where I am helping to charter the New England / Boston Chapter-in-formation. I'm "here" because it seems that I fall somewhere between the existing list/discussion group (nee working group) membership, (IETF participants) and the targeted "non-technical users". So perhaps I can provide a helpful viewpoint. As a disclaimer, I also am interested in the value of the WEIRD work product, as a tool for explaining/humanizing/publicizing the standards process, thus making ISOC membership a more sensible activity for us "mere mortals". At the risk of overflowing everybody's "attention buffer" here, I'd like to comment on the content types discussed at the IETF meeting. Here goes... >From the minutes: "A structured discussion on roughly 15 distinct content types followed, with the group classifying each type either in scope or out of scope. Content types specifically in scope include: current IETF WG and BOF activities, BOF historical information, IAB / IESG / Secretariat issues and topics of interest and their impact. Content types specifically out of scope include: information interpreting trends in internet engineering and standards; IETF-related information that is editorial in nature." The way I see it (if I "get" the implied charter) there is a real need to summarize the detail available in RFC's at several levels. This is a challenging task, and I suggest that in implementation, it will require at least two distinct layers of encapsulation. At the surface, I could see an intuitive, very visual, navigable "landscape" of the overall Internet (including historical precedents). This would serve as a painless introduction, to engage the curious. The technical content would be represented by things Internet users can relate to - viewing images, hearing sounds, finding information, "why isn't this link coming back?", that sort of thing. Underlying this view, one can imagine a series of "focal points", that act as signposts for the reader to discover the underlying content. The focus layer would act as an intermediary framework necessary to map the static, topical introductory landscape to the rapidly changing technical content. Having laid out this esoteric imagining, my question is: Does this proposed indirection and interpretation violate the "Content specifically out of scope" laid out in the minutes? [[- - whew, sorry, I got a little carried away there. ;^^) ]] Discussion...? -RTC Tag Carpenter Data Capture Institute ps - can someone forward a copy of <> ? TX -TC From owner-ietf-weird Thu Apr 15 12:36:11 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id MAA25692 for ietf-weird-bks; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 12:36:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ftpbox.mot.com (ftpbox.mot.com [129.188.136.101]) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA25688 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 12:36:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: [from pobox.mot.com (pobox.mot.com [129.188.137.100]) by ftpbox.mot.com (MOT-ftpbox 1.0) with ESMTP id OAA19992 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 14:36:35 -0500 (CDT)] Received: [from s-il06ar.corp.mot.com (s-il06ar.corp.mot.com [199.2.152.27]) by pobox.mot.com (MOT-pobox 2.0) with ESMTP id OAA21373 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 14:36:34 -0500 (CDT)] Received: by s-il06ar.corp.mot.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id <272D0QWY>; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 14:36:32 -0500 Message-ID: From: Burke Chris-CCB007 To: ietf-weird@imc.org Subject: RE: Tag's WEIRD Framework Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 14:36:30 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ietf-weird@imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: Tag, thanks for your comments and interest. I think the framework you suggest is in scope. It turns out that draft-burke-realusers never got published as an internet draft. At the last minute April and I decided to use it as the basis for a WEIRD draft that the group could work on together (i.e. draft-ietf-weird-realusers, or some such). I think the text of draft-burke-realusers was posted to this list and USV a while ago, you might find it in an archive. I'll also send you the text separately. I'd like the output of WEIRD to show how various standards activities in the IETF (and possibly elsewhere) fit together. This leads to both a more informed public and more effective participation by (esp. new) IETFers. The two views correlate well with your surface / focal point framework. The view to the public that I envision is something like, "intserv + diffserv + mobileip + impp + webdav + vpim + ipsec + reliable_multicast = foo", where we explain "foo" as a specific architectural / functional goal of the IAB and demystify some of the component enabling technologies without getting too subjective. The view to IETFers that I envision is "if you participate in WG-K in Area Y, you might also want to participate in WG-N in Area X, because bar", where we explain "bar" as a specific dependency or interrelationship among these IETF activities. Maybe a good way to get the ball rolling is for list subscribers to contribute sets of relations like the ones I've described above, either for the public view or for the IETFer view. If this sounds OK, have at it! Chris Burke (Chris.Burke@motorola.com, or ccb007@email.mot.com) > -----Original Message----- > From: tagc@datacaptureinstitute.com [SMTP:tagc@datacaptureinstitute.com] > Sent: Thursday, April 15, 1999 6:50 AM > To: ietf-weird@imc.org > Subject: Newbie > > > > > > Greetings all; > > I read with interest the minutes posted in the pre-proceedings, which led > me to subscribe to this list and inspect the archive... From owner-ietf-weird Thu Apr 15 16:46:41 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id QAA27945 for ietf-weird-bks; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 16:46:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from motgate.mot.com (motgate.mot.com [129.188.136.100]) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA27941 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 16:46:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: [from mothost.mot.com (mothost.mot.com [129.188.137.101]) by motgate.mot.com (MOT-motgate 1.0) with ESMTP id SAA29600 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 18:47:11 -0500 (CDT)] Received: [from s-il06am.corp.mot.com (s-il06am.corp.mot.com [199.5.78.61]) by mothost.mot.com (MOT-mothost 2.0) with ESMTP id SAA00371 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 18:47:11 -0500 (CDT)] Received: by s-il06am.corp.mot.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id <27PHHLN7>; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 18:47:10 -0500 Message-ID: From: Burke Chris-CCB007 To: "'ietf-weird@imc.org'" Subject: Picture of relationship among IETF Areas Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 18:47:08 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_000_01BE879A.47174C08" Sender: owner-ietf-weird@imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_000_01BE879A.47174C08 Content-Type: text/plain Here's a quick-and dirty color jpeg-encoded image I made showing the relationship among the IETF areas in terms of a "stack". Strikes me as the kind of content we might build a WEIRD page around. Does anyone have a similar / better picture of this concept they're willing to share? Chris P.S. Sending JPEGs to an IETF discussion list? 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7YokCIuc4AGAOar6npdnq1usF/D50SuHC7ivOCM8Eepq5RQBgf8ACFeHv+gf/wCRpP8A4qremeHt L0m4aewtfJlZChbzGbjIOOSfQVqUUAFYdx4R0K5uJZ5rHdLK5d281xkk5J4atyigDA/4Qrw9/wBA /wD8jSf/ABVbdvBHbW8UEK7YokCIuc4AGAOakooAKKKKACiiigD/2Q== ------_=_NextPart_000_01BE879A.47174C08-- From owner-ietf-weird Fri Apr 16 14:54:28 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id OAA03446 for ietf-weird-bks; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 14:54:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from motgate2.mot.com (motgate2.mot.com [129.188.136.102]) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA03442 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 14:54:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: [from pobox2.mot.com (pobox2.mot.com [129.188.137.195]) by motgate2.mot.com (MOT-motgate2 1.0) with ESMTP id QAA21817 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 16:56:25 -0500 (CDT)] Received: [from s-il06am.corp.mot.com (s-il06am.corp.mot.com [199.5.78.61]) by pobox2.mot.com (MOT-pobox2 2.0) with ESMTP id QAA08835 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 16:53:27 -0500 (CDT)] Received: by s-il06am.corp.mot.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id <27PHHPX7>; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 16:54:59 -0500 Message-ID: From: Burke Chris-CCB007 To: "'ietf-weird@imc.org'" Subject: Proposed Charter for WEIRD Working Group, User Services Area Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 16:54:54 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ietf-weird@imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: In response to comments from list subscribers, and to better fit the proposed charter, I propose that we change the meaning of "E" in WEIRD from "Evangelism" to "Elucidation". Here's a proposed charter for the WG, based on our discussions at the BOF and on this list. Best viewed in Courier 10 mono-spaced font. Please get any comments on this charter in within the next week (by the end of April 23). Have a great weekend! Chris Burke Chris.Burke@motorola.com (or ccb007@email.mot.com) --- Web Elucidation of Internet-Related Developments (weird) -------------------------------------------------------- Current Status: Proposed Working Group Chair(s): Chris Burke User Services Area Director(s): April Marine User Services Area Advisor: April Marine Mailing Lists: General Discussion: ietf-weird@imc.org To Subscribe: ietf-weird-request@imc.org In Body: subscribe Archive: http://www.imc.org/ietf-weird/ Description of Working Group: The WEIRD working group will develop a set of web pages. The target audience is people new to the IETF and other Internet generalists. Content within the scope of the group includes: current IETF WG and BOF activities, dependencies and interrelationships among specific IETF WG and BOF activities, BOF historical information, IAB / IESG / Secretariat issues and topics of interest and their impact. Content specifically out of scope includes: information interpreting trends in Internet engineering and standards; IETF-related information that is editorial in nature. It is thought that by starting with concrete information of general interest related to a topic the WG knows well (IETF activities), the concept of doing web pages would be well-tested. Future evaluations of the process could address the question of re-examining the audience or content scope. Web content will be developed in collaboration with the IETF Secretariat using a mix of new material and material from existing Web pages and FYI documents. Information will be presented in an online format suitable for the casual Internet user, combining text and illustration. In order to create a historic archive of the online data and to make it more accessible to users who may have difficulty with online access, the working group will capture at least one snapshot of the web pages and publish it as an FYI RFC. Goals and Milestones: May 99 Finalize outline for pages and prioritize sections Jun 99 Create pages (ongoing) Jul 99 Formally solicit feedback regarding progress to date Jul 99 Review progress, outline and prioritization of tasks and revise if necessary Nov 99 Formally solicit feedback regarding progress to date Nov 99 Review outline and prioritization of tasks and revise if necessary Feb 00 Create hardcopy version and submit as ID Mar 00 Submit hardcopy version for RFC publication Jul 00 Review progress and make decision to disband or re-charter From owner-ietf-weird Fri Apr 16 21:31:42 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id VAA18580 for ietf-weird-bks; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 21:31:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from demai02.mw.mediaone.net (demai02.mw.mediaone.net [24.131.1.20]) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA18576 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 21:31:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from morganna (nic-c13-031.mw.mediaone.net [24.131.13.31]) by demai02.mw.mediaone.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA18204; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 00:30:46 -0400 (EDT) From: "Darrin Jones" To: "Burke Chris-CCB007" , Subject: RE: Proposed Charter for WEIRD Working Group, User Services Area Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 00:30:08 -0400 Message-ID: <000001be888a$f9689e40$0a00a8c0@morganna> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: Sender: owner-ietf-weird@imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: Sounds good to me. Darrin -------------------------------------------- Never be reckless with someone else's heart. From owner-ietf-weird Mon May 3 00:28:15 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id AAA15672 for ietf-weird-bks; Mon, 3 May 1999 00:28:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from demai02.mw.mediaone.net (demai02.mw.mediaone.net [24.131.1.20]) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA15668 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 00:28:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from morganna (nic-c13-179.mw.mediaone.net [24.131.13.179]) by demai02.mw.mediaone.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id DAA02116; Mon, 3 May 1999 03:28:38 -0400 (EDT) From: "Darrin Jones" To: "April Marine" Cc: "Ietf-Weird" Subject: Name change and server status Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 03:27:49 -0400 Message-ID: <000001be9536$72d09f00$0a00a8c0@morganna> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-ietf-weird@imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: Hiya April, It's been pretty quiet. Have you heard anything about changing the groups name? Also, how are we doing with finding a server? I can still help us out if needed. Thanks, Darrin ------------------------------------------ Never be reckless with someone else's heart. From owner-ietf-weird Mon May 3 03:58:44 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id DAA19138 for ietf-weird-bks; Mon, 3 May 1999 03:58:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Mail.MeepZor.Com (i.meepzor.com [204.146.167.214]) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA19134 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 03:58:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Golux.Com (slip-32-101-162-2.nc.us.ibm.net [32.101.162.2]) by Mail.MeepZor.Com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA32098; Mon, 3 May 1999 06:59:18 -0400 Message-ID: <372D82D1.81E1A2A@Golux.Com> Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 07:04:49 -0400 From: Rodent of Unusual Size Organization: The Apache Group X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Darrin Jones CC: April Marine , Ietf-Weird Subject: Re: Name change and server status References: <000001be9536$72d09f00$0a00a8c0@morganna> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-weird@imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: Darrin Jones wrote: > > Also, how are we doing with finding a server? I can still help us out > if needed. Likewise.. -- #ken P-)} Ken Coar Apache Software Foundation "Apache Server for Dummies" From owner-ietf-weird Mon May 3 08:37:32 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id IAA21067 for ietf-weird-bks; Mon, 3 May 1999 08:37:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from isrv3.pa.vix.com (isrv3.pa.vix.com [204.152.184.182]) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA21058 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 08:37:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bb.rc.vix.com (bb.rc.vix.com [204.152.187.11]) by isrv3.pa.vix.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) via ESMTP id IAA16732; Mon, 3 May 1999 08:39:14 -0700 (PDT) env-from (April_Marine@isc.org) Received: from localhost (amarine@localhost) by bb.rc.vix.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) via SMTP id IAA28770; Mon, 3 May 1999 08:39:13 -0700 (PDT) env-from (April_Marine@isc.org) Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 08:39:13 -0700 (PDT) From: April Marine To: Rodent of Unusual Size cc: Darrin Jones , April Marine , Ietf-Weird Subject: Re: Name change and server status In-Reply-To: <372D82D1.81E1A2A@Golux.Com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ietf-weird@imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: Thanks both! We have a server, coincidentally where I work. :-) It's the same one the usv web is currently on, but we don't have any weird info yet. We should start working on an outline and start getting content filled in. The WG charter is before the reviewers now and I am hoping it will be approved at the IESG telecon this Thursday. At that point, the name will be officially changed and we will update the "info" for this list too. thanks! April On Mon, 3 May 1999, Rodent of Unusual Size wrote: > Darrin Jones wrote: > > > > Also, how are we doing with finding a server? I can still help us out > > if needed. > > Likewise.. > -- > #ken P-)} > > Ken Coar > Apache Software Foundation > "Apache Server for Dummies" > ------------------------------------------------------------------- April Marine Director of Support Services +1.650.779.6006 Internet Engines Incorporated april_marine@iengines.net From owner-ietf-weird Thu May 6 09:21:19 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id JAA29841 for ietf-weird-bks; Thu, 6 May 1999 09:21:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-relay1.idt.net (MAIL-RELAY1.IDT.NET [169.132.8.25]) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA29837 for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 09:21:18 -0700 (PDT) From: tagc@datacaptureinstitute.com Received: from dci-web.datacaptureinstitute.com ([207.113.111.40]) by mail-relay1.idt.net (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8-RAPPER) with SMTP id MAA11643 for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 12:23:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: by dci-web.datacaptureinstitute.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) id 85256769.005937FA ; Thu, 6 May 1999 12:14:30 -0400 X-Lotus-FromDomain: BCATS To: ietf-weird@imc.org Message-ID: <85256769.004962D4.00@dci-web.datacaptureinstitute.com> Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 12:14:27 -0400 Subject: Frameworks and Threads - or how to quilt a mesh Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ietf-weird@imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: Greetings all; I'm glad to see the WEIRD chartering process moving along... Let me first post a disclaimer; this might be "coloring outside the lines" of the charter as it is being written. But what the hey, this is an exchange of ideas, right? Picking up on Chris' idea about WEIRD putting IETF work in context with related standards efforts, we could start by making up an indexed set of abstracts. I am imagining structured, compact descriptions of the various works-in-progress in IETF - and elsewhere (the "rest of world" area). ...You could imagine a table looking something like: STD_BODY, STD_CMTE, STD_NAME, DATE, KEYWORDS, ABSTRACT... The announcements on Internet-Drafts might be a good source to begin with, as they usually include a reasonably succinct summary paragraph including key terms. We'd just have to be careful to capture the semantic content of "does not address" or "is out of scope" references (usually in the last sentence). This idea leads me to post two questions to the list: 1. Does one of our members have a Perl "crawler" handy, that could walk the Internet-Drafts archive and extract/decompose these paragraphs? 2. Can we jointly compile a list of similar document archives from other standards bodies that might be subject to the same approach? The framework suggested above could then be "mined" to generate the view of relationships and threads that is being discussed as the WEIRD value proposition. If we want WEIRD to relate IETF and "ROW" then it seems to me this calls for a self-maintaining reference source. If we try to do this with the "person-to-person" approach, we would need a voluntary contribution from a member of every standards committee... On the other hand, the use of a tool as described above would hopefully avoid the duplication of effort involved in each of us digging through various archives. I've taken a "bash" at the search.ietf.org tool; it presents a rifleshot capability. You *can* find what you're looking for - if you know what it is! But it's a place to start... We could pull together a "candidate thread collection" with a few queries from this resource. This might be a way to quickly generate an answer to Chris's request, so succinctly described in the example "FOO" IAB functional goal. So, I submit that one foreseeable goal of a WEIRD information resource would be to provide a flexible, but structured search capability (with examples) to allow individuals to discover related topics as they emerge. This would be possible given a... "dynamically compiled searchable meta-standards archive" "Sure, I'll tackle that over lunch"! ;^^) -RTC From owner-ietf-weird Tue May 25 09:06:54 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id JAA19436 for ietf-weird-bks; Tue, 25 May 1999 09:06:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from isrv3.pa.vix.com (isrv3.pa.vix.com [204.152.184.182]) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA19432 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 09:06:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bb.rc.vix.com (bb.rc.vix.com [204.152.187.11]) by isrv3.pa.vix.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) via ESMTP id JAA07922; Tue, 25 May 1999 09:06:56 -0700 (PDT) env-from (April_Marine@isc.org) Received: from localhost (amarine@localhost) by bb.rc.vix.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) via SMTP id JAA27000; Tue, 25 May 1999 09:06:56 -0700 (PDT) env-from (April_Marine@isc.org) Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 09:06:56 -0700 (PDT) From: April Marine To: USWG , ietf-weird@imc.org cc: Chris Burke , plzak@nic.mil Subject: new stuff! Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ietf-weird@imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: Hi all! A couple of happy developments. 1. First, congratulations to Ray Plzak and his co-authors and contributors for the recently published update to FYI 4! Title : FYI on Questions and Answers Answers to Commonly asked New Internet User Questions Author(s) : R. Plzak, A. Wells, E. Krol Filename : draft-ietf-uswg-fyi4-bis-01.txt Pages : 11 Date : 24-May-99 This memo provides an overview to the new Internet User.... 2. The WEIRD Working Group is now official! With a slight name change to Web Elucidation of Internet-Related Developments. If you are not familiar with this group, check out its charter at http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/weird-charter.html. I have put up a placeholder for its pages at http://usv.ietf.org/weird/ (Although I'm also having trouble getting usv.ietf.org to resolve at the moment and am checking into it. As there is nothing significant there yet, I'm sending out the broken URL anyway for future reference.) The WEIRD mailing list is ietf-weird@imc.org...so please join and help get that group going! No reason not to start doing what we've been talking about for the last year! thanks! April ------------------------------------------------------------------- April Marine Director of Support Services +1.650.779.6006 Internet Engines Incorporated april_marine@iengines.net and IETF User Services Area Director From owner-ietf-weird Fri Jun 11 10:23:36 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id KAA10379 for ietf-weird-bks; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 10:23:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ib.rc.vix.com (ib.rc.vix.com [204.152.187.22]) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA10375 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 10:23:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bb.rc.vix.com (bb.rc.vix.com [204.152.187.11]) by ib.rc.vix.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) via ESMTP id KAA25335; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 10:25:24 -0700 (PDT) env-from (April_Marine@isc.org) Received: from localhost (amarine@localhost) by bb.rc.vix.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) via SMTP id KAA27654; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 10:25:20 -0700 (PDT) env-from (April_Marine@isc.org) Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 10:25:19 -0700 (PDT) From: April Marine To: "Robert G. Ferrell" cc: WEIRD WG Subject: Re: Nothing to do with email In-Reply-To: <199906111614.LAA05124@rgfsparc.cr.usgs.gov> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ietf-weird@imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: Hi Robert, This looks like a very cool, informative page. One of the things the WEIRD WG is going to do is try to collect info that helps people get some insight/handle on the complexities of the IETF and its processes and put it on a web page. In that regard, since you seem to be doing this for yourself and sharing it to be generous, may I ask how stable you think this page will be? Is it something the WG could consider pointing to if it should decide to do so? Just looking for a bit of feedback. I would point you to the WEIRD pages, but they aren't even up yet--we're a young group! regards, April Marine current hat: User Services Area Director On Fri, 11 Jun 1999, Robert G. Ferrell wrote: > Hi, > > I hate to break the mood by posting something that isn't a personal attack or > sarcastic commentary, but I made up a little table to organize the > incoming drafts and RFCs for myself, and I thought I'd share the URL with > anyone who's interested: > > http://rgfsparc.cr..usgs.gov:8090/sysadmin/int_rpt.html > > I call it "The Internet Report" 'cause that sounds better than "a little table > to organize the incoming drafts and RFCs." > > That's all. Back to your regularly scheduled sniping now. > > ;-) > > RGF > > =*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*= > Robert G. Ferrell > Internet Technologist > National Business Center, US DoI rferrell@nbc.gov > *************************************************************** > private static class NT extends DOS implements Nothing { > *************************************************************** > > From owner-ietf-weird Fri Jun 11 13:26:04 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id NAA11954 for ietf-weird-bks; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 13:26:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from motgate.mot.com (motgate.mot.com [129.188.136.100]) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA11949 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 13:25:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: [from pobox2.mot.com (pobox2.mot.com [129.188.137.195]) by motgate.mot.com (MOT-motgate 1.0) with ESMTP id PAA06596 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 15:28:01 -0500 (CDT)] Received: [from s-il06ak.corp.mot.com (s-il06ak.corp.mot.com [199.2.152.59]) by pobox2.mot.com (MOT-pobox2 2.0) with ESMTP id PAA09492 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 15:25:33 -0500 (CDT)] Received: by s-il06ak.corp.mot.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 15:28:00 -0500 Message-ID: From: Burke Chris-CCB007 To: "'ietf-weird@imc.org'" Subject: Good Morning from IETF-Weird! Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 15:27:59 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ietf-weird@imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: With the IETF WEIRD Working Group now officially chartered and Oslo fast approaching, who's up for some discussion? The WEIRD working group will develop a set of web pages about the IETF. Our Area Director, April Marine, has put up a placeholder for its pages at http://usv.ietf.org/weird/. The target audience for these pages is people new to the IETF and other Internet generalists. Content within the scope of the group includes: current IETF WG and BOF activities, dependencies and interrelationships among specific IETF WG and BOF activities, BOF historical information, IAB / IESG / Secretariat issues and topics of interest and their impact. I'd like the group to make some incremental improvements to the WEIRD web site before Oslo. This is mainly an exercise for us, to get us organized, but I hope that the results will help others as well. Here's what I'm thinking...your thoughts, alternatives, and contributions are welcome! 1) Name That Site - The working group is named WEIRD, but our web page doesn't have to be called that. Shout out some URLs (for now, starting with usv.ietf.org) that you think would make sense and appeal to the target audience. 2) Design Our Front Page - No offense April, what we have is pretty dry...How about some simple mock-ups for the page layout? I'm not asking for a lot of tinsel and chrome, just something lively that makes good use of the web's capabilities without losing coherence if someone views it text-only. 3) Content, Content, Content. You see above a description of what's in scope. How about some specific proposals for what our very first report or presentation should cover? Something we could write up within the next 2-3 weeks and get onto the pages, that would help someone attending Oslo better understand what's going on in specific IETF areas or working groups. Regards, Chris Burke From owner-ietf-weird Wed Jun 16 00:23:20 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id AAA11969 for ietf-weird-bks; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 00:23:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from demai02.mw.mediaone.net (demai02.mw.mediaone.net [24.131.1.20]) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA11958 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 00:23:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from morganna (nic-c13-189.mw.mediaone.net [24.131.13.189]) by demai02.mw.mediaone.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id DAA04397 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 03:24:00 -0400 (EDT) From: "Darrin Jones" To: "Ietf-Weird" Subject: Mock-up Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 03:25:18 -0400 Message-ID: <000401beba24$e2094580$0a00a8c0@morganna> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-ietf-weird@imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: Hi folks, Since I'm not sure where we want to go with this I didn't spend a lot of time on it but it is a start and hopefully will generate some ideas/discussion. To take a look, point your browser at http://www.ravenrock.net/usv/weird.html. Later, Darrin ------------------------------------------------------- Don't expect to find any more in me than what you give. From owner-ietf-weird Thu Jul 22 14:23:23 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id OAA09312 for ietf-weird-bks; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 14:23:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from motgate.mot.com (motgate.mot.com [129.188.136.100]) by mail.proper.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA09307 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 14:22:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: [from pobox.mot.com (pobox.mot.com [129.188.137.100]) by motgate.mot.com (MOT-motgate 1.0) with ESMTP id QAA13513 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 16:24:37 -0500 (CDT)] Received: [from s-il06am.corp.mot.com (s-il06am.corp.mot.com [199.5.78.61]) by pobox.mot.com (MOT-pobox 2.0) with ESMTP id QAA27982 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 16:24:36 -0500 (CDT)] Received: by s-il06am.corp.mot.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2580.0) id <3S5WGFQB>; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 16:24:36 -0500 Message-ID: From: Burke Chris-CCB007 To: "'ietf-weird@imc.org'" , "'uswg@isi.edu'" Subject: DRAFT IETF 45 WEIRD Minutes Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 16:24:34 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2580.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-ietf-weird@imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: > Thanks to Ray Plzak for taking the minutes for the WEIRD working group. > Here's a draft of what I plan to submit for the proceedings. > > Please request any changes to the minutes by next Wednesday. > > Thanks for participating! It was great to see so many familiar faces in > Oslo. > > Chris Burke > > -----Original Message----- > Minutes from Weird WG Meeting - 14 July 1999 > Reported by Ray Plzak > > > 1. The working group charter was presented and explained. > > > > 2. The scope of activity was explained. The scope is limited to > > factual information relating to IETF WGs and BOFs. Specultive > > information will not be posted. > > > > 3. The name of the WEIRD group's web site was dicussed. > > Characteristics of the site name are dependent on target audience, > > reachability from IETF home page, and discoverability from a search > > engine. The web site name will be a third level domain of the > > IETF.ORG domain. The name will be something like "info" or "digest" > > or some similar name that will convey the idea of a repository of > > information. > > > > 4. Page design was discussed. The page will be an IETF content page > not a WG page. The design template submitted by Darin Jones > > (http://www.ravenrock.net/usv/weird.html was deemed to be a suitable > > functional layout. Line length will not be more than 60 characters > > because of human factors. A site map needs to be developed. Initial > > design team volunteers are April Marine and Bob Quinn. Darin Jones > > will be asked to participate. Others may volunteer from the list. > The size of the design team will be limited to no more than 5 or 6. > > > 5. Content was discussed. The target audience is people who are > > either new to the IETF or are internet generalists. The scope of the > > content is: > > > > * Current WG and BOF activities. > > * Specific Dependencies and interrelationships between a WG and BOF. > > * BOF history > > * Things hard to find on the IETF pages > > * Things not found on the IETF pages > > > > Hits on various items will be tracked to aid in determining the > > usefullness of the item. > > > The web page will be put up with a statement that this is work in > > progress and is initially put up to get information out to the internet > > community but will be improved over time. Ideas for improvement > > will be solicited in this statement. > > > > Items will be identified as either no/low maintenance and required > > maintenance. The no/low maintenance items will consist primarily > > links to other pages. Maintenance required items will require the > > participation of the Secretariat. > > > A list of specific content to work on first was discussed. Three items > > were selected for immediate action. Those three are: > > > > * Quick and Dirty Links. These are links that can be identified > > and established quickly. Examples are link to RFC editor queque and the > > IETF RFC search engine. A list of links will be solicited from the WG > > mail list. > > * Area Director's Overview. April will prepare a sample using > > the User Services Area. She will post this to the list for comment. > > Based upon comment a template will be developed which she will present > to > > the other ADs for their input. > > * Hot Topics. This item will be developed from the hot topics > > provided by the ADs and from the list. Topics from the discussion are > > IPv6, IPtelephony, QoS, Security, and Multicast. Ginny Listman will > > monitor the list for Hot Topics. > > > > Other things to do but for which no implementation schedule was > > established are: > > > > * FAQ links. A list of questions to assist the visitor in finding > > content. There will be a short answer with a link to the source for a > > more detailed answer. > > * Family tree of documents showing the IDs and RFCs related to > > specific topic or protocol. > > * RFC Supplement Section. A collection of documentary items that > > cannot be included in an RFC because of RFC format requirements - > > primarily this refers to graphic depictions of concepts, processes, and > > topologies that are described in the text of an RFC. The RFC editor > must > > become involved in this process. > > * BOFs > > * Other sources (IAB, Plenary session, etc) > > * Meta contents archive > > * Feed Back (feed back form from visitors on what they couldn't > > find. > > * IETF Rock - A graphical depiction of how an idea proceeds > > through the ID stage through the RFC stage - how STDs become STDs etc. > > From owner-ietf-weird Wed Sep 22 17:13:17 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mail.proper.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA27182 for ietf-weird-bks; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 17:13:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from motgate2.mot.com (motgate2.mot.com [129.188.136.102]) by mail.proper.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA27178 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 17:13:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: [from pobox.mot.com (pobox.mot.com [129.188.137.100]) by motgate2.mot.com (MOT-motgate2 1.0) with ESMTP id TAA17094 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 19:17:11 -0500 (CDT)] Received: [from s-il06am.corp.mot.com (s-il06am.corp.mot.com [199.5.78.61]) by pobox.mot.com (MOT-pobox 2.0) with ESMTP id TAA28064 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 19:17:11 -0500 (CDT)] Received: by s-il06am.corp.mot.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2580.0) id ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 19:17:11 -0500 Message-ID: From: Burke Chris-CCB007 To: "'ietf-weird@imc.org'" Subject: Something WEIRD this way comes... Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 19:16:02 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2580.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-ietf-weird@imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: The WEIRD working group is experiencing a bit of "slow start" - new progress being made at the same rate that old work is being acknowledged. No acks, no progress. (that's a TCP/IP joke - I can hear you laughing). To kick-start WEIRD again for the Washington, DC meeting, here are two topics for list discussion: 1) Follow up on the action items from Oslo. 2) A suggestion for new progress the group can make. Action Items from Oslo: - We agreed to assemble a core web design team of about 5 people. Status: I have not seen a roster, other than the Oslo result that April Marine and Bob Quinn would participate, and someone would solicit help from Darin Jones (who made the prototype at http://www.ravenrock.net/usv/weird.html). Any update from the list subscribers? - We agreed to get a 2nd level domain name from IETF, but didn't agree on what it should be. Suggestions included info.ietf.org and digest.ietf.org. Status: There has been no subsequent discussion on the list. Action: Let's pick a name before the DC meeting and go get it cleared with Steve Coya and registered. - We agreed to add a set of "quick and dirty" links to the web page. These are links that can be identified and established quickly. Examples are link to RFC editor queue and the IETF RFC search engine. Status: I have not seen a list of links, blame me - I don't think I solicited the list for input. Action: Will someone (maybe from the core web design team) volunteer to be linkmaster? Then we can send links we think should be on the page to you and get them posted. Another item we should be able to complete by the DC meeting. - We agreed to pull together a set of Area Directors' Overviews, to post on the web page; April was to prepare a sample describing the User Services Area, which was to be sent to the list for comment. Based upon people's comments, a template will be developed. April will present the template to the other ADs for their input. Status: I have not seen the example from April, I don't think we've made progress. Action: April, can you send a sample AD Overview to the list in the next few weeks? Let's get this one going before DC. - We agreed to identify a set of hot topics based on the AD Overviews and suggestions from the list. Topics suggested at Oslo included IPv6, IP telephony, QoS, Security, and Multicast. Ginny Listman agreed to monitor the list for Hot Topics. Status: There hasn't been much list traffic, so I'm guessing Ginny hasn't captured any hot topics. Because of our status on the AD Overviews, there are no hot topics from there either. Actions: To get things started, let's work with the list of topics suggested at Oslo. Any volunteers to write up a short piece on what's going on currently in the IETF on one of these topics? You could gather the information you need by talking to friends, WG chairs, and Area Directors. The Area directors are: Applications: Patrik Faltstrom Keith Moore Internet: Thomas Narten Eric Nordmark Operations: Randy Bush Bert Wijnen Routing: Rob Coltun Dave Oran Security: Marcus Leech Jeff Schiller Transport: Scott Bradner Vern Paxson User Services: April Marine A Suggestion for New Progress: The WEIRD Working Group is a little bit like an IETF "press core". We're chartered to report - factually - on subjects of interest to the IETF community, to create better-informed and more effective standards participants. The IETF community and standards environment is very fluid, things are changing all the time. WEIRD is nothing without content. So maybe rather than wait for a master document plan, we should just start contributing short write-ups on topics of interest to the WEIRD list. This sounds trite, I know, but what if we all consider ourselves (ugh) empowered (ugh), to write - factually - about whatever internet-related developments are on our minds or the minds of our colleagues? Post what we've written to the WEIRD list for follow-up, which should also be in the form of a short, thought-out piece rather than free-wheeling discussion. Ask WG chairs and other interested parties to comment. Capture this, and post it on our web site as a kind of digest of current IETF thinking and activity on hot topics. How about it? Any takers? Regards, Chris Burke Chairman, Web Elucidation of Internet-Related Developments (WEIRD) WG From owner-ietf-weird Mon Sep 27 12:07:11 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mail.imc.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA07707 for ietf-weird-bks; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 12:07:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from motgate.mot.com (motgate.mot.com [129.188.136.100]) by mail.imc.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA07703 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 12:07:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: [from pobox.mot.com (pobox.mot.com [129.188.137.100]) by motgate.mot.com (MOT-motgate 1.0) with ESMTP id OAA03518 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 14:07:50 -0500 (CDT)] Received: [from s-il06am.corp.mot.com (s-il06am.corp.mot.com [199.5.78.61]) by pobox.mot.com (MOT-pobox 2.0) with ESMTP id OAA06292 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 14:07:50 -0500 (CDT)] Received: by s-il06am.corp.mot.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2580.0) id ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 14:07:49 -0500 Message-ID: From: Burke Chris-CCB007 To: "'ietf-weird@imc.org'" Subject: FW: First Draft Ideas Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 14:07:44 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2580.0) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ietf-weird@imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: Posted this morning to IETF-PRESS-CLUES, FYI. Chris Burke > -----Original Message----- > From: Burke Chris-CCB007 [SMTP:Chris_Burke-CCB007@email.mot.com] > Sent: Monday, September 27, 1999 11:55 AM > To: 'ietf-press-clues@imc.org' > Subject: Re: First Draft Ideas > > Hello! I have just joined the list and read through the archive at > http://www.imc.org/ietf-press-clues. > > I chair the Web Elucidation of Internet-Related Developments working > group, > part of the User Services Area. The group's charter is to build and > maintain > a web site that makes information about the IETF and IETF activities more > accessible to a less technical audience. I fully expect that the Press > will > be among the most frequent visitors to this site. > > Given the support of the IETF WG chairs and ADs, the site will include > digests of WG charters and deliverables, as well as something akin to an > "area plan" for each area and a "hot topics" section that will cut across > multiple Areas. We also plan on including information useful to new > participants, such as The Tao of the IETF, and All RFCs are not Standards. > > Our intent is that the site will be named off of the ietf.org domain, > perhaps info.ietf.org, but we are still hashing out the name in the > working > group before taking a proposal to the IETF secretariat. > > The "press clues" information being discussed on this list would be a > welcome addition to the WEIRD web site, increasing the benefit that the > WEIRD site provides to the internet community. If you decide to proceed > and > want a collaborator or host, please count me in! > > Comments on what has been posted so far: > > 1) I don't see a problem with IETF WG chairs being fingered as "press > contacts" for their WG. Especially with the recent IETF policy change, > which > increases the role of the WG chair in determining the status of a > contributed document, I can think of no better contact. If WEIRD is > successful, it will become the first line of defense - I hope that the > press > will go there for answers to FAQ, and only hit up WG chairs when the WEIRD > site fails to satisfy. > > 2) I like the idea of an "IETF Style Guide" for the press, which gives > in-your-face examples of where a mistake has been made. Generally, the > trade > press has a built-in incentive to report accurately on events and I think > they would welcome a tool to help them avoid becoming someone's corporate > shill by mistake. > > 3) With respect to "emphasizing the positive" as someone put it, I don't > see > a big problem with using specific, real examples. What the press writes is > a > matter of public record. I think it is effective to give a specific > example, > without belaboring the details. Associate the example with the > publication, > not with the reporter, since the whole publication is responsible for its > editorial content. Quote the article. Then be truthful, but kind, in > pointing out where the mistake was made. > > Regards, > Chris Burke > > "I before E except after C...WEIRD" > IETF Web Elucidation of Internet-Related Developments > mailing list: ietf-weird@imc.org, usual sign-up conventions From owner-ietf-weird Wed Sep 29 08:33:52 1999 Received: by mail.imc.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA27746 for ietf-weird-bks; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 08:33:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from demai02.mw.mediaone.net (demai02.mw.mediaone.net [24.131.1.20]) by mail.imc.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA27742 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 08:33:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from skyler (nic-c13-072.mw.mediaone.net [24.131.13.72]) by demai02.mw.mediaone.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA05592 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 11:32:35 -0400 (EDT) From: "Darrin Jones" To: "IETF-WEIRD" Subject: RE: Something WEIRD this way comes... Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 11:34:34 -0400 Message-ID: <000501bf0a90$21914480$480d8318@skyler> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal In-reply-to: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-ietf-weird@imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: Hi all, I have volunteered to be the Linkmaster for the web pages. Just let me know what we want and when. Have a good evening, Darrin (Er, morning for most of ya') > -----Original Message----- > From: Burke Chris-CCB007 [mailto:Chris.Burke@motorola.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 23, 1999 6:20 PM > To: 'Darrin Jones' > Subject: RE: Something WEIRD this way comes... > > > Thanks for volunteering, Darin. Do you want to post a note to the list > saying you'll be linkmaster? Chris From owner-ietf-weird Wed Sep 29 10:04:49 1999 Received: by mail.imc.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA28900 for ietf-weird-bks; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 10:04:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailgw2a.lmco.com (mailgw2a.lmco.com [192.91.147.7]) by mail.imc.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA28896 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 10:04:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from emss03g01.ems.lmco.com (emss03g01.ems.lmco.com [141.240.4.144]) by mailgw2a.lmco.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA16504; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 13:04:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON by lmco.com (PMDF V5.2-32 #38888) id <0FIT00D01YKOGR@lmco.com>; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 13:03:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from emss02i01.ems.lmco.com ([198.7.15.35]) by lmco.com (PMDF V5.2-32 #38888) with ESMTP id <0FIT00A5BYK2IT@lmco.com>; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 12:45:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: by emss02i01.ems.lmco.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 10:46:39 -0600 Content-return: allowed Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 10:46:31 -0600 From: "Pruitt, Dace" Subject: RE: Something WEIRD this way comes... To: "'Darrin Jones'" , IETF-WEIRD Message-id: <955DBB91136BD311A9AE0000F8081F036ACF7F@emss02m02.ems.lmco.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-ietf-weird@imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: I will be more than happy to help with the editing of the content and format. Dace Pruitt l Enterprise Service Desk / Enterprise Service Center 303-927-1106 -----Original Message----- From: Darrin Jones [SMTP:drjones@concentric.net] Sent: 9/29/99 9:35 AM To: IETF-WEIRD Subject: RE: Something WEIRD this way comes... Hi all, I have volunteered to be the Linkmaster for the web pages. Just let me know what we want and when. Have a good evening, Darrin (Er, morning for most of ya') > -----Original Message----- > From: Burke Chris-CCB007 [mailto:Chris.Burke@motorola.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 23, 1999 6:20 PM > To: 'Darrin Jones' > Subject: RE: Something WEIRD this way comes... > > > Thanks for volunteering, Darin. Do you want to post a note to the list > saying you'll be linkmaster? Chris From owner-ietf-weird Wed Sep 29 10:41:21 1999 Received: by mail.imc.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA29253 for ietf-weird-bks; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 10:41:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from e3000.delavangt.com (e300.delavangt.com [207.177.17.5]) by mail.imc.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA29248 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 10:41:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dln3042 (dln3042.delavangt.com [150.100.3.42]) by e3000.delavangt.com (Netscape Mail Server v2.0) with SMTP id AAA24952; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 12:35:35 -0500 Reply-To: From: kbosovich@delavangt.com (Kathy Bosovich) To: "'Pruitt, Dace'" , "'Darrin Jones'" , "'IETF-WEIRD'" Subject: RE: Something WEIRD this way comes... Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 12:39:05 -0500 Message-ID: <004301bf0aa1$876419c0$2a036496@dln3042.delavangt.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <955DBB91136BD311A9AE0000F8081F036ACF7F@emss02m02.ems.lmco.com> Sender: owner-ietf-weird@imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: I also would be happy to help in any way with the content. Katherine Bosovich IT Department Delavan Gas Turbine 811 Fourth Street West Des Moines, IA   50265   kbosovich@delavangt.com 515-274-1561x2242 -----Original Message----- From: owner-ietf-weird@imc.org [mailto:owner-ietf-weird@imc.org]On Behalf Of Pruitt, Dace Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 1999 11:47 AM To: 'Darrin Jones'; IETF-WEIRD Subject: RE: Something WEIRD this way comes... I will be more than happy to help with the editing of the content and format. Dace Pruitt l Enterprise Service Desk / Enterprise Service Center 303-927-1106 -----Original Message----- From: Darrin Jones [SMTP:drjones@concentric.net] Sent: 9/29/99 9:35 AM To: IETF-WEIRD Subject: RE: Something WEIRD this way comes... Hi all, I have volunteered to be the Linkmaster for the web pages. Just let me know what we want and when. Have a good evening, Darrin (Er, morning for most of ya') > -----Original Message----- > From: Burke Chris-CCB007 [mailto:Chris.Burke@motorola.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 23, 1999 6:20 PM > To: 'Darrin Jones' > Subject: RE: Something WEIRD this way comes... > > > Thanks for volunteering, Darin. Do you want to post a note to the list > saying you'll be linkmaster? Chris From owner-ietf-weird Wed Sep 29 11:05:19 1999 Received: by mail.imc.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA29497 for ietf-weird-bks; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 11:05:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailgw1a.lmco.com (mailgw1a.lmco.com [192.31.106.7]) by mail.imc.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA29493 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 11:05:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from emss02g01.ems.lmco.com (emss02g01.ems.lmco.com [198.7.15.39]) by mailgw1a.lmco.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA04196; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 12:05:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON by lmco.com (PMDF V5.2-32 #38887) id <0FIU009010456Y@lmco.com>; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 12:05:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from emss02i01.ems.lmco.com ([198.7.15.35]) by lmco.com (PMDF V5.2-32 #38887) with ESMTP id <0FIU006RX1V2WM@lmco.com>; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 11:57:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: by emss02i01.ems.lmco.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 11:58:06 -0600 Content-return: allowed Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 11:57:57 -0600 From: "Pruitt, Dace" Subject: RE: Something WEIRD this way comes... To: "'kbosovich@delavangt.com'" , "Pruitt, Dace" , "'Darrin Jones'" , "'IETF-WEIRD'" Message-id: <955DBB91136BD311A9AE0000F8081F036ACF81@emss02m02.ems.lmco.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-ietf-weird@imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: Now the question is who is coordinating all of these efforts? Who is taking lead on this? Dace Pruitt l Enterprise Service Desk / Enterprise Service Center 303-927-1106 -----Original Message----- From: kbosovich@delavangt.com [SMTP:kbosovich@delavangt.com] Sent: 9/29/99 11:39 AM To: 'Pruitt, Dace'; 'Darrin Jones'; 'IETF-WEIRD' Subject: RE: Something WEIRD this way comes... I also would be happy to help in any way with the content. Katherine Bosovich IT Department Delavan Gas Turbine 811 Fourth Street West Des Moines, IA 50265 kbosovich@delavangt.com 515-274-1561x2242 -----Original Message----- From: owner-ietf-weird@imc.org [mailto:owner-ietf-weird@imc.org]On Behalf Of Pruitt, Dace Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 1999 11:47 AM To: 'Darrin Jones'; IETF-WEIRD Subject: RE: Something WEIRD this way comes... I will be more than happy to help with the editing of the content and format. Dace Pruitt l Enterprise Service Desk / Enterprise Service Center 303-927-1106 -----Original Message----- From: Darrin Jones [SMTP:drjones@concentric.net] Sent: 9/29/99 9:35 AM To: IETF-WEIRD Subject: RE: Something WEIRD this way comes... Hi all, I have volunteered to be the Linkmaster for the web pages. Just let me know what we want and when. Have a good evening, Darrin (Er, morning for most of ya') > -----Original Message----- > From: Burke Chris-CCB007 [mailto:Chris.Burke@motorola.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 23, 1999 6:20 PM > To: 'Darrin Jones' > Subject: RE: Something WEIRD this way comes... > > > Thanks for volunteering, Darin. Do you want to post a note to the list > saying you'll be linkmaster? Chris From owner-ietf-weird Wed Sep 29 12:09:53 1999 Received: by mail.imc.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA00464 for ietf-weird-bks; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 12:09:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from motgate.mot.com (motgate.mot.com [129.188.136.100]) by mail.imc.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA00460 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 12:09:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: [from mothost.mot.com (mothost.mot.com [129.188.137.101]) by motgate.mot.com (MOT-motgate 1.0) with ESMTP id OAA08722 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 14:10:41 -0500 (CDT)] Received: [from s-il06am.corp.mot.com (s-il06am.corp.mot.com [199.5.78.61]) by mothost.mot.com (MOT-mothost 2.0) with ESMTP id OAA19783 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 14:10:41 -0500 (CDT)] Received: by s-il06am.corp.mot.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2580.0) id ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 14:10:41 -0500 Message-ID: From: Burke Chris-CCB007 To: "'Pruitt, Dace'" , "'kbosovich@delavangt.com'" , "'Darrin Jones'" , "'IETF-WEIRD'" Subject: RE: Something WEIRD this way comes... Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 14:10:40 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2580.0) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ietf-weird@imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: I will coordinate unless someone else really wants to. Chris Burke > -----Original Message----- > From: Pruitt, Dace [SMTP:dace.pruitt@lmco.com] > Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 1999 12:58 PM > To: 'kbosovich@delavangt.com'; Pruitt, Dace; 'Darrin Jones'; > 'IETF-WEIRD' > Subject: RE: Something WEIRD this way comes... > > Now the question is who is coordinating all of these > efforts? Who is taking lead on this? > Dace Pruitt > l > Enterprise Service Desk / Enterprise Service Center > 303-927-1106 > > > > ----Original Message----- > From: kbosovich@delavangt.com > [SMTP:kbosovich@delavangt.com] > Sent: 9/29/99 11:39 AM > To: 'Pruitt, Dace'; 'Darrin Jones'; > 'IETF-WEIRD' > Subject: RE: Something WEIRD this way > comes... > > I also would be happy to help in any way with the > content. > Katherine Bosovich > IT Department > Delavan Gas Turbine > 811 Fourth Street > West Des Moines, IA 50265 > > kbosovich@delavangt.com > > 515-274-1561x2242 > > > ----Original Message----- > From: owner-ietf-weird@imc.org > [mailto:owner-ietf-weird@imc.org]On > Behalf Of Pruitt, Dace > Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 1999 11:47 AM > To: 'Darrin Jones'; IETF-WEIRD > Subject: RE: Something WEIRD this way comes... > > > I will be more than happy to help > with the editing of the > content and format. > Dace Pruitt > l > Enterprise Service Desk / Enterprise > Service Center > 303-927-1106 > > > > ----Original > Message----- > From: Darrin Jones > [SMTP:drjones@concentric.net] > Sent: 9/29/99 9:35 > AM > To: IETF-WEIRD > Subject: RE: > Something WEIRD this way > comes... > > Hi all, > > I have volunteered > to be the Linkmaster for > the web pages. Just let me know > what we want and when. > > Have a good evening, > Darrin > > (Er, morning for most of > ya') > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Burke Chris-CCB007 > [mailto:Chris.Burke@motorola.com] > > Sent: Thursday, September > 23, 1999 6:20 PM > > To: 'Darrin Jones' > > Subject: RE: Something > WEIRD this way comes... > > > > > > Thanks for volunteering, > Darin. Do you want to > post a note to the list > > saying you'll be > linkmaster? Chris > From owner-ietf-weird Wed Sep 29 12:35:11 1999 Received: by mail.imc.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA01062 for ietf-weird-bks; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 12:35:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rgfsparc.cr.usgs.gov (rgfsparc.cr.usgs.gov [136.177.164.192]) by mail.imc.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA01058 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 12:35:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rgfsparc.cr.usgs.gov (rgfsparc.cr.usgs.gov [136.177.164.192]) by rgfsparc.cr.usgs.gov (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) with SMTP id OAA01501 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 14:35:22 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199909291935.OAA01501@rgfsparc.cr.usgs.gov> Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 14:35:21 -0500 (CDT) From: "Robert G. Ferrell" Reply-To: "Robert G. Ferrell" Subject: RE: Something WEIRD this way comes... To: ietf-weird@imc.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-MD5: MWVQsp/t2Q+ulUyN/tuYsA== X-Mailer: dtmail 1.3.0 CDE Version 1.3 SunOS 5.7 sun4u sparc Sender: owner-ietf-weird@imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: >I will coordinate unless someone else really wants to. >Chris Burke I thought that was more or less your gig, anyway... ;-) Robert G. Ferrell Internet Technologist National Business Center, US DoI Robert_G_Ferrell@nbc.gov ********************************** **** I hack, therefore I am ****** ********************************** From owner-ietf-weird Wed Sep 29 14:23:35 1999 Received: by mail.imc.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA02350 for ietf-weird-bks; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 14:23:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ib.rc.vix.com (ib.rc.vix.com [204.152.187.22]) by mail.imc.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA02346 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 14:23:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bb.rc.vix.com (bb.rc.vix.com [204.152.187.11]) by ib.rc.vix.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) via ESMTP id OAA10886 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 14:24:09 -0700 (PDT) env-from (April_Marine@iengines.net) Received: from localhost (amarine@localhost) by bb.rc.vix.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) via SMTP id OAA02715; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 14:24:09 -0700 (PDT) env-from (April_Marine@iengines.net) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 14:24:09 -0700 (PDT) From: April Marine X-Sender: amarine@bb.rc.vix.com To: WEIRD WG cc: April Marine Subject: any takers? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ietf-weird@imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: In looking over various notes I have, I have put together the following concrete ideas that we have discussed at various times as pertaining to weird. The quick and dirty links, I can put up this week, I think. If people agree that the questions under the "FAQ" section are relevant, would people like to volunteer to contribute a few sentences of explanation for any particular topics? Any ideas of other specific topics we should cover? I always find this easiest to tackle in terms of questions to be answered, but you may have other techniques that work for you. The important thing is to get concrete at this point. (I'm not sure we can answer all these questions--we may have to ping others as well.) I will ask some colleagues here to come up with a simple feedback form. thanks! April ------------------- Quick and Dirty links: - paul hoffman's doc - keith's inet talk - rfc-ed queue - RFC search engine - people's organization stuff they share - http://rgfsparc.cr.usgs.gov:8090/sysadmin/int_rpt.html - ftp://ftpeng.cisco.com/fred/rfc-index/drafts.html - ftp://ftpeng.cisco.com/fred/rfc-index/rfc.html - point to parts of the proceedings (e.g. area rpts, minutes) - newbies presentation - Chris's drawing of the relations of the groups - others? IETF newbie "FAQ" - what does IETF do? - what does the IETF not do? - what are the Areas? - what do they do? - how do they relate? - what if something overlaps? - what happens at an IETF mtg? - what are the procedure docs - newbie orientation - what are the hot topics the IETF is working on? - BOFs - how can a new person fit in? - join mailing list - read docs - contribute - stay on topic! - how can I get something published? - on the Standards track - on the Informational track - variations - what are the format rules? - what are the boilerplate rules? - common misconceptions - all RFCs are Standards - publishing an ID means the IETF endorses the technology - publishing an RFC means the IETF endorses the technology - there must be more... - what are some meta issues the IETF is addressing? - end-to-end connectivity - security - IPv6 and address space - IP telephony - multicast - QoS - I am interested in XX technology. How do I find what the IETF is doing in that area? - where do I look? - if I see a reference to a doc, how do I get it? - what if an ID is expired? Form to collect feedback and suggestions From owner-ietf-weird Wed Sep 29 15:07:16 1999 Received: by mail.imc.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA03112 for ietf-weird-bks; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 15:07:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ib.rc.vix.com (ib.rc.vix.com [204.152.187.22]) by mail.imc.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA03108 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 15:07:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bb.rc.vix.com (bb.rc.vix.com [204.152.187.11]) by ib.rc.vix.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) via ESMTP id PAA12031 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 15:07:52 -0700 (PDT) env-from (April_Marine@iengines.net) Received: from localhost (amarine@localhost) by bb.rc.vix.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) via SMTP id PAA06918 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 15:07:52 -0700 (PDT) env-from (April_Marine@iengines.net) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 15:07:52 -0700 (PDT) From: April Marine X-Sender: amarine@bb.rc.vix.com To: WEIRD WG Subject: too quick and dirty Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ietf-weird@imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: For an experiment, I tried putting the "quick and dirty" links up on the weird page. There is note much there that other pages don't also provide, but it is an interesting experiment. And this is why: I don't think they help much because there is no context. I think we have to explain what problem (or question :-) we think any information we provide addresses. If you have forgotten where I am working, try: http://usv.ietf.org/weird/ A. From owner-ietf-weird Wed Nov 3 07:11:50 1999 Received: by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA07372 for ietf-weird-bks; Wed, 3 Nov 1999 07:11:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from motgate2.mot.com (motgate2.mot.com [136.182.1.10]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA07368 for ; Wed, 3 Nov 1999 07:11:48 -0800 (PST) Received: [from pobox2.mot.com (pobox2.mot.com [136.182.15.8]) by motgate2.mot.com (MOT-motgate2 1.0) with ESMTP id JAA18406 for ; Wed, 3 Nov 1999 09:12:01 -0600 (CST)] Received: [from s-il06al.corp.mot.com (s-il06al.corp.mot.com [199.2.152.60]) by pobox2.mot.com (MOT-pobox2 2.0) with ESMTP id JAA16501 for ; Wed, 3 Nov 1999 09:12:00 -0600 (CST)] Received: by s-il06al.corp.mot.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Wed, 3 Nov 1999 09:11:59 -0600 Message-ID: From: Burke Chris-CCB007 To: "'ietf-weird@imc.org'" Subject: FW: WEIRD Working Group Agenda Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 09:11:58 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ietf-weird@imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Down to the wire... > -----Original Message----- > From: Burke Chris-CCB007 > Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 1999 7:11 AM > To: Burke Chris-CCB007; 'agenda@ietf.org' > Cc: 'April_Marine@isc.org' > Subject: RE: WEIRD Working Group Agenda > > WEIRD Working Group > > Duration: 2 hours > > Agenda: > > 1.Welcome / circulate sign-up sheet sheet > > 2. Review of Progress on Action Items from IETF 45 > > 3. Discussion of relationship of WEIRD to proposed ICANN Ad Hoc / draft > any resolution if the group desires it. > > 4. Assign new action items. > > 5. Adjourn > From owner-ietf-weird Wed Nov 3 07:36:09 1999 Received: by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA07845 for ietf-weird-bks; Wed, 3 Nov 1999 07:36:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from ib.rc.vix.com (ib.rc.vix.com [204.152.187.22]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA07841 for ; Wed, 3 Nov 1999 07:36:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from bb.rc.vix.com (bb.rc.vix.com [204.152.187.11]) by ib.rc.vix.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) via ESMTP id HAA19876; Wed, 3 Nov 1999 07:36:08 -0800 (PST) env-from (April_Marine@iengines.com) Received: from localhost (amarine@localhost) by bb.rc.vix.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) via SMTP id HAA12541; Wed, 3 Nov 1999 07:36:07 -0800 (PST) env-from (April_Marine@iengines.com) Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 07:36:07 -0800 (PST) From: April Marine X-Sender: amarine@bb.rc.vix.com To: Burke Chris-CCB007 cc: "'ietf-weird@imc.org'" Subject: Re: FW: WEIRD Working Group Agenda In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ietf-weird@imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Thanks for sending the agenda! #3 is interesting. Can you give a bit of background re how that wound up on the agenda? thx, April On Wed, 3 Nov 1999, Burke Chris-CCB007 wrote: > Down to the wire... > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Burke Chris-CCB007 > > Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 1999 7:11 AM > > To: Burke Chris-CCB007; 'agenda@ietf.org' > > Cc: 'April_Marine@isc.org' > > Subject: RE: WEIRD Working Group Agenda > > > > WEIRD Working Group > > > > Duration: 2 hours > > > > Agenda: > > > > 1.Welcome / circulate sign-up sheet sheet > > > > 2. Review of Progress on Action Items from IETF 45 > > > > 3. Discussion of relationship of WEIRD to proposed ICANN Ad Hoc / draft > > any resolution if the group desires it. > > > > 4. Assign new action items. > > > > 5. Adjourn > > > From owner-ietf-weird Wed Nov 3 08:40:46 1999 Received: by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA09825 for ietf-weird-bks; Wed, 3 Nov 1999 08:40:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from motgate.mot.com (motgate.mot.com [129.188.136.100]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA09820 for ; Wed, 3 Nov 1999 08:40:43 -0800 (PST) Received: [from mothost.mot.com (mothost.mot.com [129.188.137.101]) by motgate.mot.com (MOT-motgate 1.0) with ESMTP id KAA02650 for ; Wed, 3 Nov 1999 10:40:56 -0600 (CST)] Received: [from s-il06al.corp.mot.com (s-il06al.corp.mot.com [199.2.152.60]) by mothost.mot.com (MOT-mothost 2.0) with ESMTP id KAA11508 for ; Wed, 3 Nov 1999 10:40:55 -0600 (CST)] Received: by s-il06al.corp.mot.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Wed, 3 Nov 1999 10:40:55 -0600 Message-ID: From: Burke Chris-CCB007 To: "'April Marine'" , "'ietf-weird@imc.org'" Subject: RE: FW: WEIRD Working Group Agenda Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 10:40:54 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ietf-weird@imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: April asked how discussion of the ICANN Ad Hoc got on the agenda. The simple answer is, I put it there at the last minute. > It seems like what they propose to do overlaps a bit with what WEIRD is > trying to do. Their activity focuses on address assignment and is more > speculative than our charter allows. See > http://www.icann.org/adhoc-charter-draft-19oct99.htm > > Today's post from Brian Carpenter suggested that the work proposed in the > ICANN Ad Hoc charter should be handled within the IETF. This led me to > believe that WEIRD should at least have a discussion, concerning whether > we are that place within the IETF - that is, to whatever extent this would > be an IETF activity, is some or all of it within the scope of our charter? > > Also, if the ICANN Ad Hoc is established, they are probably one source > that WEIRD might want to tap for information on 'internet related > developments'. Or at least the 'development' is something we might want to > build some content around as a 'hot topic' > > Chris > > -----Original Message----- > From: April Marine [SMTP:April_Marine@iengines.com] > Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 1999 7:36 AM > To: Burke Chris-CCB007 > Cc: 'ietf-weird@imc.org' > Subject: Re: FW: WEIRD Working Group Agenda > > Thanks for sending the agenda! > > #3 is interesting. Can you give a bit of background re how that > wound up > on the agenda? > > thx, > April > > On Wed, 3 Nov 1999, Burke Chris-CCB007 wrote: > > > Down to the wire... > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Burke Chris-CCB007 > > > Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 1999 7:11 AM > > > To: Burke Chris-CCB007; 'agenda@ietf.org' > > > Cc: 'April_Marine@isc.org' > > > Subject: RE: WEIRD Working Group Agenda > > > > > > WEIRD Working Group > > > > > > Duration: 2 hours > > > > > > Agenda: > > > > > > 1.Welcome / circulate sign-up sheet sheet > > > > > > 2. Review of Progress on Action Items from IETF 45 > > > > > > 3. Discussion of relationship of WEIRD to proposed ICANN Ad Hoc > / draft > > > any resolution if the group desires it. > > > > > > 4. Assign new action items. > > > > > > 5. Adjourn > > > > > From owner-ietf-weird Wed Nov 3 09:04:34 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA10186 for ietf-weird-bks; Wed, 3 Nov 1999 09:04:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from ftpbox.mot.com (ftpbox.mot.com [129.188.136.101]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA10182 for ; Wed, 3 Nov 1999 09:04:31 -0800 (PST) Received: [from mothost.mot.com (mothost.mot.com [129.188.137.101]) by ftpbox.mot.com (MOT-ftpbox 1.0) with ESMTP id LAA05522 for ; Wed, 3 Nov 1999 11:04:34 -0600 (CST)] Received: [from s-il06al.corp.mot.com (s-il06al.corp.mot.com [199.2.152.60]) by mothost.mot.com (MOT-mothost 2.0) with ESMTP id LAA04024 for ; Wed, 3 Nov 1999 11:04:34 -0600 (CST)] Received: by s-il06al.corp.mot.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Wed, 3 Nov 1999 11:04:33 -0600 Message-ID: From: Burke Chris-CCB007 To: "'ietf-weird@imc.org'" Subject: ICANN Ad Hoc Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 11:04:32 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ietf-weird@imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: This is awkward. On one hand, there is no reason why my post as an internet citizen needs to be cross-posted here. On the other hand, I'm the chair of WEIRD and it seems like some might expect me to share this in the interests of a fully open debate, even though it is already in the public record. Ah, politics - gotta love it. I posted the following message this morning ion the ICANN web site, in response to their call for public commment on the Ad Hoc charter. I encourage you to voice your opinions as well, if so inclined. Yesterday was an election day for many of us in the U.S. and we consider this one of our fundamental rights. Anyway, the words were chosen carefully - the WEIRD charter says we can't interpret trends, but doesn't bar us from identifying them. Charter says audience is internet generalists, which is broad enough to include the press. There is no endorsement here of the ICANN Ad Hoc, only the hope that if they are established they will work with (not against or independently of) the IETF and specifically WEIRD. Clearly identified as individual opinion. We abide by our charter, and our official work products remain the result of our collaborative efforts and rough consensus, as always. I hope that we will have a productive and appropriately scoped discussion on this issue in the days leading up to IETF 46, as well as in the working group session. Chris --- Nick: Chris Burke Date/Time: Wed, November 3, 1999 at 8:54 AM PDT (Wed, November 3, 1999 at 8:54 AM PDT) Subject: Relationship / Liaison of Ad Hoc to IETF WEIRD WG Message: Hi! This is an individual comment, in no way is it meant to represent the opinions of my employer, my working group, the IETF, or any other organization with which I am affiliated etc. etc. You get the idea. I chair the Web Elucidation of Internet Related Developments (yes, that acronyms to WEIRD) working group of the IETF. The charter of this established working group, which proposes to use web media to make information about the workings of the IETF more accessible to the press and public, is posted at http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/weird-charter.html. Our mailing list is ietf-weird@imc.org. There could be significant, beneficial overlap between the objectives of the ICANN Ad Hoc and the objectives of IETF-WEIRD. We have made every effort to charter WEIRD responsibly, to avoid undue speculation in its work products. I (individually) consider it within the scope of WEIRD's charter to attempt to identify trends in internet evolution driven by both environmental factors and the architectural philosophy of the sitting IESG / IAB, as a framework within which the relationships among various IETF activities can be... ahem... elucidated. With this in mind I have added discussion of the proposed ICANN Ad Hoc to the agenda of the WEIRD WG at IETF 46 next week in Washington, DC. In the event that the ICANN Ad Hoc is established, I (individually) have high hopes for the benefits of close collaboration between this Ad Hoc and the IETF WEIRD working group. Regards, Chris Burke Seattle, WA From owner-ietf-weird Mon Nov 15 14:56:50 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA22660 for ietf-weird-bks; Mon, 15 Nov 1999 14:56:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from ftpbox.mot.com (ftpbox.mot.com [129.188.136.101]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA22655 for ; Mon, 15 Nov 1999 14:56:49 -0800 (PST) Received: [from pobox.mot.com (pobox.mot.com [129.188.137.100]) by ftpbox.mot.com (MOT-ftpbox 1.0) with ESMTP id QAA27359 for ; Mon, 15 Nov 1999 16:58:03 -0600 (CST)] Received: [from s-il06ak.corp.mot.com (s-il06ak.corp.mot.com [199.2.152.59]) by pobox.mot.com (MOT-pobox 2.0) with ESMTP id QAA18842 for ; Mon, 15 Nov 1999 16:53:30 -0600 (CST)] Received: by s-il06ak.corp.mot.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Mon, 15 Nov 1999 16:53:15 -0600 Message-ID: From: Burke Chris-CCB007 To: "'ietf-weird@imc.org'" Subject: Update on WEIRD WG Meeting at IETF 46 Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 16:53:13 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-ietf-weird@imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: The official meeting minutes will be out in a few days, meanwhile here's a quick update on some content-creation procedures we discussed in Washington, DC. About 12 people attended the WG meeting. We discussed creating a set of templates for the different kinds of content to go on the WEIRD web site. We need templates for at least these kinds of content: - Area Director's Plan / News - Hot Topics (separate templates for initial data collection and for updates) - IETF Participant Needs Questionnaire (ask what info would have made people better-informed participants) - Birds-of-a-Feather Sessions I presented a strawman template for an Area Director's Plan / News, and we revised it a bit in the meeting. So far it looks like this: - BOFs happening this IETF in this Area, and what if any 'big picture' they're part of - AD's general architectural vision for the area - AD's view of relationships of work in the area to work of other WGs in same or other areas - Update on changes in area procedures that might be good for IETF attendees or press to know about During the working group meeting we developed a strawman template for Hot Topics information. So far it looks like this: - What is it (30 words or less) - Which working groups in IETF address this, what are their perspectives - How are the activities on this topic in different working groups related / interdependent - What are the current status, time scales, expected short-term developments. - Date on all information (aging) - Extended comments if any - What else is important that's not on the template - Who is implementing it (????) - Who are you? -> Identification / credit -> Credentials? -> Disclaimer / individuality vs institutional opinion - Links -> mailing lists -> additional information (URLs) to WGs -> chairs, ADs -> repository identified -> n.b. don't want press directed to WG mailing lists -> Related work going on, outside the IETF -> If you read nothing else, read this... The idea is to find knowledgeable people to make an initial write-up on a topic, answering the questions in the template. There was some discussion on what happens next, but general agreement that we need to document the policy / process for taking the initial write-up and turning it into a web page, so that everyone understands it. We didn't come up with a process, but did make a list of process issues. The list of process issues looks like this right now: - Policy -> Solicited vs unsolicited information --->> Who has the "authority" to fill out templates? --->> Identification of experts -> "Letters to the Editor" - Editorial function (if any) - Aging (of information) - Archival procedures / metadata / searchability - Implementation / deployment - Data collection methodology -> Newsgroups, e-mail lists, forms, explicit solicitation, etc. - Openness - Commitment (timely completion, ongoing maintenance, etc) If you want to take a stab at improving the templates, or defining a content-creation process, or have other thoughts on the work done at IETF 46, please write the list! Reminder: the following people volunteered a few weeks back to help create content for the WEIRD web pages: Erica Zeinfeld, Robert Patzer, Robert Ferrell, Robert Stephens, Katherine Bosovich, Tag Carpenter, Chris Burke. The volunteers, at least, should have some thoughts on what the templates and process should be! Another Reminder: The Hot Topics identified so far include IPv6, IP telephony, QoS, Security, and Multicast. Regards, Chris Burke From owner-ietf-weird Sat Nov 20 16:42:18 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA04298 for ietf-weird-bks; Sat, 20 Nov 1999 16:42:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from hotmail.com (f127.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.237.127]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA04294 for ; Sat, 20 Nov 1999 16:42:16 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 85483 invoked by uid 0); 21 Nov 1999 00:43:25 -0000 Message-ID: <19991121004325.85482.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 216.185.31.67 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sat, 20 Nov 1999 16:43:23 PST X-Originating-IP: [216.185.31.67] From: "Casey Farrell" To: ietf-weird@imc.org Cc: creative_writing@hotmail.com Subject: Can the success of HOTMAIL be reduplicated and even surpassed? Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 16:43:23 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-ietf-weird@imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Casey Farrell; Designer Friday, Nov. 19, '99 Couldn't an expansion of the delivery concepts in essence create more 'bandwidth?' Would like to hear on these new concepts. Attn: Jon Swartz, Columnist SF CHRONICLE Dear Mr. Swartz, Was hoping you might be able to pass this on to Nion McEvoy, as a possible new industry that would employ the Chronicle people; just in more futuristic surroundings. It isn't just C. Schwab, that got "new" bu the NYSE also has a wall of new TV/'NET screens and will update the graphics/content&text accordingly as the 'New Medias' evolve; they will yet remain the "Print Industries!" ...'Papers, Magazines; etc.,' may become "Wireless" or whatever...but I am guessing that the 'NEWS' will still be found in a "printout" version on paper, whether it is downloaded from a "Dick Tracy" watch or view from a car-WebTV. There is going to be READING AND WRITING! How come? Because "by definition" NO COMMUNICATIONS INDUSTRIES or INFORMATION TECHNOLOGIES can exist, subsist, or whatever, without the old "Three 'R's!" Might be a good time to see if there is an interest group in the San Francisco Bay Area which wants to get "online" ...in "Print?" I would like to help bring modern "non-technical, non-mechanical' standards for design to the "Newspaper Business." (if it ain't too late) Schools do not instruct the children today on how much of the history of the 'printed word' occurred in San Francisco. Mark Twain is one good example, he didn't stop with Huckleberry Finn, but went on to invest the monies from that book into type-industries of his day! Remember the story about the giant, house-sized 'typewriter,' that was on Grant Street at the turn of the century? Just to set a paper in Chinese characters? It took ten men to operate it. And it shook the earth! We've come a long way; but there is always work to do; just need to find a newspaper group that wants to be in the news...'PAPER' business rather than just in the 'NEWS'... business! Thanks again- Attn: Rachel Ross; Interactive Producer c/o MSNBC (MicroSoft/MSNBC/hotmail) Dear Ms. Ross, Excellent job of reporting! I am wondering as you are perhaps the most briefed individual today-on the HOTMAIL 'phenom'...mightn't MicroSoft/MSNBC/hotmail be intersted in 'future HotMail' research? Here is some information on designwork I have for such a scenario. Thanks- Casey 415/664-2489 Attn: Lisa Poulson;Tumbleweed, Angela McMahon; UPS, & Heather Clark; WorldTalk Good Morning Ladies, I'm forwarding this opportunity announcement having read the news spot from Fisher Draper Venture Capital Partners; who seem to be out there looking for another hit like they had with HOTMAIL. I have been trying my darndest to get their attention and also YAHOO and many more players in the Internet arena, as I believe that for sometime I've had a GREAT scenario for getting e-mail and e-commerce together: as well as schools and multilingual translations. How? I use ART! Graphics! BUT...these products are ALSO...DOMAIN NAMES! ('Branding Strategy!)] See, it is so simply, it doesn't seem possible that there could be what they have been calling at COMDEX '99 ..."Easy Internet"...or "User Friendly Computing," etc., but the whole thing is available NOW, in that I have these designs for sale as Intellectual Property. For Instance, you want there to be a REAL..."French"-'Yahoo' or whatever, how would you 'develop' a 'solution' which would have 'cross-platform' 'applications?' Wrong! ( If you are going in the direction of the established 'R&D' you are simply 'reselling' PATCHES! Currently this is as I see no REALLY connectivity, because NOTHING really, is interactive! You see there was a 'PR' "Virtual Reality"... and then when MATRIX came out, there was a semblance of the real deal. But just prior to the premiere of the movie, the 'originator' of the term..."Virtual Reality" abashedly acknowledged that it was & is... "just camera tricks!" ( Dr. Furniss ) Same thing with INTERNET 2... it is ONLY a reality at the KEYBOARD LEVEL...( "readin' writing' & 'rithmetic") because there is at this level of activity only one way to involve the Human element...via communication. That is Alpha-Numeric. This includes of course Wireless, Voice, etc. My design shown here in my letter to YAHOO's dept for a "CHINESE" 'Net is just the most recent to these guys, the problem is no one sees these things at the "EASY" or "USER FRIENDLY" interface...LANGUAGE! Yes, it is ALL based on language & math! You have had Hardware, Firmware, Software, etc, and Freeware, Shareware,etc., but the FUTURE of the Web isn't tied to the single dimensioned solution anymore. BAOZI, as pictured was designed to work with a prime-number code which would allow the "color" of each "letter" to accomplish "musically" the conversion from written to voice communications- Neat idea, huh? I had some years back consulted for the product "Talk to Your PC", where I had presented this proposal in a prime-number schematic for English language process so that the "robot sound" could be engineered out for an advanced version of the voice-commanded computer. Today, I have "OIEAU!" ("WOW!") for a FRENCH languaged Network, w/ same-named ('brand') search engine, e-mail, etc. The whole 'label' devolves upon the 'brandname' and the 'colorization' schemes which applied with a mathematical precision are designed to accomodate a PARTICULAR language, yet make it "synchronatic" with others, according to the phonetic principles which hold separate demands upon each and every language area group user, and must be resolved again to a way in which say, English & French can work 'interactively'.."Oieau!/Wow!" And beside all the obvious commercial advantage that a clorful ad up there on the browser is going to have, an educational aspect is intentionally imparted, albeit somewhat in the manner of learning by osmosis rather than by rote...and how the schools will love this! But so will people who want to brush up on their lingo before the rush off to Tokyo, or Bombay, Vienna, the Maldives, Atlanta, or wherever. I would like very much to help bring on the new Web, if only by way of the introduction of new graphics imagery, more conducive to higher- resolution appliances; digital gadgets & gizmos which because of the revolutionary 'rewiring' of our world's computing devices and networks, now dependent on the "convergence principal," ...that this new way of looking at things will need, if nothing else; ad-copy text! Thank you for your time and consideration-if you could forward this address to the most forward looking person in your company-you can be fairly certain that you'll be your own 'IPO' one day soon! Best Regards, Casey Farrell tel: (415) 664-2489 >From: "Jenson Tseng" >Reply-To: "Jenson Tseng" >To: "Casey Farrell" >Subject: Re: Localization of Networking via Information Design ("Content >Driven 'Net") >Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 10:17:38 -0800 > >Dear Mr. Farrell, > >got your e-mail. will check out the url later today. > >thx. > >jenson > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Casey Farrell >To: >Sent: Thursday, November 04, 1999 4:39 PM >Subject: Localization of Networking via Information Design ("Content Driven >'Net") > > > > Casey Farrell; Designer Thursday > > San Francisco, California November 4, 1999 > > > > Attn Jenson Tseng; Developer > > c/o YAHOO, Inc. (Chinese languaged 'Web') > > > > > > Dear Mr. Tseng, > > > > Here is the URL for my designwork "BAOZI" which has already been > > shown at the California State Government level-for a 'convergence' kind >of > > situation where English and Chinese can be used in a colorized version >for > > e-mail, text and graphics. This is of course for > > both Roman script and Chinese characters. > > > > > > http://www.slip.net/~navyblue > > > > > > Let me know if this got through-I'll try and get you a better > > picture and explanation sometime tomorrow if possible, and as I said the > > 'setting' is at 'Mandarin', so this will have a wide user area. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Casey > > > > rainbowtexts@hotmail.com > > > > ______________________________________________________ > > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-ietf-weird Sat Nov 20 16:54:23 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA04446 for ietf-weird-bks; Sat, 20 Nov 1999 16:54:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from c008.sfo.cp.net (c008-h018.c008.sfo.cp.net [209.228.14.207]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA04441 for ; Sat, 20 Nov 1999 16:54:22 -0800 (PST) Received: (cpmta 19487 invoked from network); 20 Nov 1999 16:56:02 -0800 Date: 20 Nov 1999 16:56:02 -0800 Message-ID: <19991121005602.19486.cpmta@c008.sfo.cp.net> X-Sent: 21 Nov 1999 00:56:02 GMT Received: from [216.185.31.67] by mail.giantsfan.com with HTTP; 20 Nov 1999 16:56:02 PST Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Mime-Version: 1.0 To: ietf-weird@imc.org From: 614275 GIANTS <614275@giantsfan.com> X-Mailer: Web Mail 3.3 Subject: Fwd: Can the success of HOTMAIL be reduplicated and even surpassed? Sender: owner-ietf-weird@imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: ------- Start of forwarded message ------- Is it posting now? Sender: owner-ietf-weird@imc.org To: ietf-weird@imc.org Delivered-To: giantsfan.com%614275@giantsfan.com X-Originating-Ip: [216.185.31.67] Cc: creative_writing@hotmail.com Received: (cpmta 7826 invoked from network); 20 Nov 1999 16:47:54 -0800 from ns.secondary.com (208.184.76.39) by smtp.c008.sfo.cp.net with SMTP; 20 Nov 1999 16:47:54 -0800 (from majordomo@localhost) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA04298 for ietf-weird-bks; Sat, 20 Nov 1999 16:42:18 -0800 (PST) from hotmail.com (f127.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.237.127]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA04294 for ; Sat, 20 Nov 1999 16:42:16 -0800 (PST) (qmail 85483 invoked by uid 0); 21 Nov 1999 00:43:25 -0000 from 216.185.31.67 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sat, 20 Nov 1999 16:43:23 PST Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Content-Length: 8678 List-Archive: X-Received: 21 Nov 1999 00:47:54 GMT Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Subject: Can the success of HOTMAIL be reduplicated and even surpassed? From: "Casey Farrell" List-Id: Return-Path: Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 16:43:23 PST Message-Id: <19991121004325.85482.qmail@hotmail.com> Casey Farrell; Designer Friday, Nov. 19, '99 Couldn't an expansion of the delivery concepts in essence create more 'bandwidth?' Would like to hear on these new concepts. Attn: Jon Swartz, Columnist SF CHRONICLE Dear Mr. Swartz, Was hoping you might be able to pass this on to Nion McEvoy, as a possible new industry that would employ the Chronicle people; just in more futuristic surroundings. It isn't just C. Schwab, that got "new" bu the NYSE also has a wall of new TV/'NET screens and will update the graphics/content&text accordingly as the 'New Medias' evolve; they will yet remain the "Print Industries!" ...'Papers, Magazines; etc.,' may become "Wireless" or whatever...but I am guessing that the 'NEWS' will still be found in a "printout" version on paper, whether it is downloaded from a "Dick Tracy" watch or view from a car-WebTV. There is going to be READING AND WRITING! How come? Because "by definition" NO COMMUNICATIONS INDUSTRIES or INFORMATION TECHNOLOGIES can exist, subsist, or whatever, without the old "Three 'R's!" Might be a good time to see if there is an interest group in the San Francisco Bay Area which wants to get "online" ...in "Print?" I would like to help bring modern "non-technical, non-mechanical' standards for design to the "Newspaper Business." (if it ain't too late) Schools do not instruct the children today on how much of the history of the 'printed word' occurred in San Francisco. Mark Twain is one good example, he didn't stop with Huckleberry Finn, but went on to invest the monies from that book into type-industries of his day! Remember the story about the giant, house-sized 'typewriter,' that was on Grant Street at the turn of the century? Just to set a paper in Chinese characters? It took ten men to operate it. And it shook the earth! We've come a long way; but there is always work to do; just need to find a newspaper group that wants to be in the news...'PAPER' business rather than just in the 'NEWS'... business! Thanks again- Attn: Rachel Ross; Interactive Producer c/o MSNBC (MicroSoft/MSNBC/hotmail) Dear Ms. Ross, Excellent job of reporting! I am wondering as you are perhaps the most briefed individual today-on the HOTMAIL 'phenom'...mightn't MicroSoft/MSNBC/hotmail be intersted in 'future HotMail' research? Here is some information on designwork I have for such a scenario. Thanks- Casey 415/664-2489 Attn: Lisa Poulson;Tumbleweed, Angela McMahon; UPS, & Heather Clark; WorldTalk Good Morning Ladies, I'm forwarding this opportunity announcement having read the news spot from Fisher Draper Venture Capital Partners; who seem to be out there looking for another hit like they had with HOTMAIL. I have been trying my darndest to get their attention and also YAHOO and many more players in the Internet arena, as I believe that for sometime I've had a GREAT scenario for getting e-mail and e-commerce together: as well as schools and multilingual translations. How? I use ART! Graphics! BUT...these products are ALSO...DOMAIN NAMES! ('Branding Strategy!)] See, it is so simply, it doesn't seem possible that there could be what they have been calling at COMDEX '99 ..."Easy Internet"...or "User Friendly Computing," etc., but the whole thing is available NOW, in that I have these designs for sale as Intellectual Property. For Instance, you want there to be a REAL..."French"-'Yahoo' or whatever, how would you 'develop' a 'solution' which would have 'cross-platform' 'applications?' Wrong! ( If you are going in the direction of the established 'R&D' you are simply 'reselling' PATCHES! Currently this is as I see no REALLY connectivity, because NOTHING really, is interactive! You see there was a 'PR' "Virtual Reality"... and then when MATRIX came out, there was a semblance of the real deal. But just prior to the premiere of the movie, the 'originator' of the term..."Virtual Reality" abashedly acknowledged that it was & is... "just camera tricks!" ( Dr. Furniss ) Same thing with INTERNET 2... it is ONLY a reality at the KEYBOARD LEVEL...( "readin' writing' & 'rithmetic") because there is at this level of activity only one way to involve the Human element...via communication. That is Alpha-Numeric. This includes of course Wireless, Voice, etc. My design shown here in my letter to YAHOO's dept for a "CHINESE" 'Net is just the most recent to these guys, the problem is no one sees these things at the "EASY" or "USER FRIENDLY" interface...LANGUAGE! Yes, it is ALL based on language & math! You have had Hardware, Firmware, Software, etc, and Freeware, Shareware,etc., but the FUTURE of the Web isn't tied to the single dimensioned solution anymore. BAOZI, as pictured was designed to work with a prime-number code which would allow the "color" of each "letter" to accomplish "musically" the conversion from written to voice communications- Neat idea, huh? I had some years back consulted for the product "Talk to Your PC", where I had presented this proposal in a prime-number schematic for English language process so that the "robot sound" could be engineered out for an advanced version of the voice-commanded computer. Today, I have "OIEAU!" ("WOW!") for a FRENCH languaged Network, w/ same-named ('brand') search engine, e-mail, etc. The whole 'label' devolves upon the 'brandname' and the 'colorization' schemes which applied with a mathematical precision are designed to accomodate a PARTICULAR language, yet make it "synchronatic" with others, according to the phonetic principles which hold separate demands upon each and every language area group user, and must be resolved again to a way in which say, English & French can work 'interactively'.."Oieau!/Wow!" And beside all the obvious commercial advantage that a clorful ad up there on the browser is going to have, an educational aspect is intentionally imparted, albeit somewhat in the manner of learning by osmosis rather than by rote...and how the schools will love this! But so will people who want to brush up on their lingo before the rush off to Tokyo, or Bombay, Vienna, the Maldives, Atlanta, or wherever. I would like very much to help bring on the new Web, if only by way of the introduction of new graphics imagery, more conducive to higher- resolution appliances; digital gadgets & gizmos which because of the revolutionary 'rewiring' of our world's computing devices and networks, now dependent on the "convergence principal," ...that this new way of looking at things will need, if nothing else; ad-copy text! Thank you for your time and consideration-if you could forward this address to the most forward looking person in your company-you can be fairly certain that you'll be your own 'IPO' one day soon! Best Regards, Casey Farrell tel: (415) 664-2489 >From: "Jenson Tseng" >Reply-To: "Jenson Tseng" >To: "Casey Farrell" >Subject: Re: Localization of Networking via Information Design ("Content >Driven 'Net") >Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 10:17:38 -0800 > >Dear Mr. Farrell, > >got your e-mail. will check out the url later today. > >thx. > >jenson > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Casey Farrell >To: >Sent: Thursday, November 04, 1999 4:39 PM >Subject: Localization of Networking via Information Design ("Content Driven >'Net") > > > > Casey Farrell; Designer Thursday > > San Francisco, California November 4, 1999 > > > > Attn Jenson Tseng; Developer > > c/o YAHOO, Inc. (Chinese languaged 'Web') > > > > > > Dear Mr. Tseng, > > > > Here is the URL for my designwork "BAOZI" which has already been > > shown at the California State Government level-for a 'convergence' kind >of > > situation where English and Chinese can be used in a colorized version >for > > e-mail, text and graphics. This is of course for > > both Roman script and Chinese characters. > > > > > > http://www.slip.net/~navyblue > > > > > > Let me know if this got through-I'll try and get you a better > > picture and explanation sometime tomorrow if possible, and as I said the > > 'setting' is at 'Mandarin', so this will have a wide user area. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Casey > > > > rainbowtexts@hotmail.com > > > > ______________________________________________________ > > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------- End of forwarded message ------- __________________________________________________________ The Going Away Party! Giants Baseball 1999 Giants Fan Email - Official Email of the San Francisco Giants Get your free Giants Fan Email account http://www.sfgiants.com From owner-ietf-weird Mon Nov 22 14:15:38 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA27762 for ietf-weird-bks; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 14:15:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from hotmail.com (f83.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.237.83]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA27758 for ; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 14:15:37 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 84140 invoked by uid 0); 22 Nov 1999 22:16:57 -0000 Message-ID: <19991122221657.84139.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 216.185.31.85 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 14:16:55 PST X-Originating-IP: [216.185.31.85] From: "Casey Farrell" To: 614275@giantsfan.com Cc: electronic_notary@yahoo.com Subject: New Type-Design... for Celebration of Greek Alphabet's 2400th Bitrhday! Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 14:16:55 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-ietf-weird@imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Hi here, Mr. Hoffman, and Ms. Marine and Club Members-this example shows then a typical way in which the other-half; or "GREEK" solution could be utilised, as seen at http://www.slip.net/~navyblue But if we wanted to just do "Op-Art" perhaps the easiest fast look at an example of "fun" ...'solutions', can be seen at http://www.slip.net/~o614275 Which is the "DIGITALIZATION" of the "GIANTS!" baseball logo. A very "Y2K READY" design? Unbelievable as it may sound, many of the varied works I design are made to go together as part of a larger "picture"...and one of those "pictures" can be found at http://www.cam.org/home/Wcoprod/mmpro.htm first page; 2nd Item, "CALIFORNIA STAR" and that is the 'formatting' of information 'by design' for the eventual 'convergence' of the technocratic jumble of networking which soon will require some semblance of organization. Best method for creating stanards? At the state school-text level! So this is a design for "DIGITAL HIGH SCHOOLS" (AB 64 Mazzoni) NEW SCIENCE IS HARD ON OLD BRAINS! >From: "Casey Farrell" >Reply-To: twentysixletters@egroups.com >To: twentysixletters@egroups.com >CC: oldscripts@hotmail.com >Subject: [twentysixletters] New Type-Design... for Celebration of Greek >Alphabet's 2400th Bitrhday! >Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 11:30:59 PST > >Casey Farrell; Designer Monday >San Francisco, CA Nov. 22, 1999 > >Attn: GREEK INET > 72 Mozden Lane > Pleasant Hill, CA > > Dear Marketing Manager, > > I am looking for a way in which to use this GREEK alphabet > designwork of mine, pictured at the URL; > > http://www.slip.net/~navyblue > > The graphic on the right side of the screen is a letter-substitution >design. Very Simple. There are besides the obvious inferred visual >'likenesses' seen in all alphabets with the 'I/1' and the 'O/0'... letters >& >numerals, respectively; but that leaves EIGHT (8) NON-ROMAN >figures which are the Greek letters "Delta",, etc. Hey! after the 'ONE' and >the 'ZERO'...there are EIGHT (8)...'Arabic Numerals'! So >we can use them in place of the Greek Letters...only other business >being to turn 'L' ("GAMMA") and 'V' ("LAMBDA") 'Upside Down'...that is >'Right Side Up'for the letter-to-letter transliteration device shown >here under the title of "STAR." The scheme makes allowance only for the >Capital Letters & Numerals; much older in form than the 'Cursive.' > > There are many reasons why this may be a useful device, but the idea >for now is "Just for fun!" A quick keyboard notation. (And there are >other-such in the world, for Music Reference Library purposes; and as >pointed out, simple transliteration upon a Roman keyboard, say for the >rendering of Ancient Greek Coin Inscriptions, ..."in English!" But how this >("STAR") differs is in that is using corresponding likeness of shape of >letter to numeral, and has alloted each to the other, sorting methodically >by shapeforms, hoping to create a new way >in which to both advertise to Greek-Speakers, and help the novice who >may wish to learn Greek. > > And as the Roman Alphabet is a direct descendant of the Greek; this >makes a graffiti for celebrating the Ancient Civilizations of Europe! > > "Everything Changes..." this seems a way in which to make all things >"NEW", by the simple avoidance of taking away anything old! > > Please let me know if there is anyway I may be of service to the >Greek community, and I would very much like to submit draft proposals >implimenting such, for your inspection-when the occasion should arise. P.S. (This might be said to be the way in which to create browser-ads in the GREEK language...but can be created from the Roman keyboard!) > > Thank you, > > Casey Farrell > >tel: (415) 664-2489 > >@rainbowtexts@hotmail.com > >______________________________________________________ > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Was the salesman clueless? Productopia has the answers. >http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/1702 > > > >-- Talk to your group with your own voice! >-- >http://www.egroups.com/VoiceChatPage?listName=twentysixletters&m=1 > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-ietf-weird Mon Nov 22 15:14:33 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA29074 for ietf-weird-bks; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 15:14:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from hotmail.com (f43.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.237.43]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA29070 for ; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 15:14:32 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 78396 invoked by uid 0); 22 Nov 1999 23:15:51 -0000 Message-ID: <19991122231551.78395.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 216.185.31.85 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 15:15:49 PST X-Originating-IP: [216.185.31.85] From: "Casey Farrell" To: 614275@giantsfan.com Cc: April_Marine@iengines.com Subject: New Type-Design... for Celebration of Greek Alphabet's 2400th Bitrhday! Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 15:15:49 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-ietf-weird@imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Hi here, Mr. Hoffman, Ms. Marine, Chris Burke and IETF/WEIRD Club Members-this example shows then a typical way in which the other-half; or "GREEK" solution could be utilised, as seen at http://www.slip.net/~navyblue (in reference to yesterday's post "BAOZI" (Chinese))But to plainly state "what-it-is", that I'm designing; let's just call it "New-TV?" Last night on PBS they had a program; New York City Television History and the upshot was that "if only TV could be seperated from the Madison Avenue people, just long enough to allow for the natural growth of the medium, in order that the public might be able to se the full potentiality as an art form...?" WOODY ALLEN, ROD STIEGER, etc.! The same may be said of the "Internet;"( read "WEB-TV," TiVo, etc. ) There is going to be PLENTY of REVENUES for EVERYONE...so...? Would it be 'allright' if the people who DON'T understand the FUTURE MEDIA please just sit in the backseat with their mouths shut? We'll pay you! I'm not kidding, it's like some many other enterprises in the last 30-years...it is kind of a 'superstition' with these 'big-wigs' they just don't think anything will sell unless they have a kid beating on a garbage can in a ghetto! "We" ...( THE... real... genuine... people) DO NOT WANT OUR CLOTHES, PERFUME, CARS, ETC., to come from a GARBAGE CAN in A GHETTO! One question? WHAT DO YOU THINK 'they' WERE TALKING ABOUT WHEN 'they' MENTIONED..."VOODOO-(read 'Doo-Doo)ECONOMICS?" That's right, just like in '1984; they laid the truth on you but you wouldn't listen! YOU ARE GETTING THE INFERIOR 'STUFF!" I'd like to see a 'modern' Internet. How about you? But with 'info' it cannot be..."BY DEFINITION"...all 'Nuts & Bolts' (MECHANICAL!) At some point...ENGLISH SPELLING will have to be 'reformed!' Right? Write? Rite? Wright? Huh? ( as well, many languages still have NO writing system...or MANY! So they 'ain't ready for 'PrimeTime!') Phony Hindu accent on TV ad ..."Are you RRRReady?"("for Internet?") "Sheesh!", "Come off of it!", " Next!" ( Let's cut the 'baloney'!) But if we wanted to just do "Op-Art" perhaps the easiest fast look at an example of "fun" ...'solutions', can be seen at http://www.slip.net/~o614275 Which is the "DIGITALIZATION" of the "GIANTS!" baseball logo. A very "Y2K READY" design? Unbelievable as it may sound, many of the varied works I design are made to go together as part of a larger "picture"...and one of those "pictures" can be found at http://www.cam.org/home/Wcoprod/mmpro.htm first page; 2nd Item, "CALIFORNIA STAR" and that is the 'formatting' of information 'by design' for the eventual 'convergence' of the technocratic jumble of networking which soon will require some semblance of organization. Best method for creating stanards? At the state school-text level! So this is a design for "DIGITAL HIGH SCHOOLS" (AB 64 Mazzoni) NEW SCIENCE IS HARD ON OLD BRAINS! >From: "Casey Farrell" >Reply-To: twentysixletters@egroups.com >To: twentysixletters@egroups.com >CC: oldscripts@hotmail.com >Subject: [twentysixletters] New Type-Design... for Celebration of Greek >Alphabet's 2400th Bitrhday! >Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 11:30:59 PST > >Casey Farrell; Designer Monday >San Francisco, CA Nov. 22, 1999 > >Attn: GREEK INET > 72 Mozden Lane > Pleasant Hill, CA > > Dear Marketing Manager, > > I am looking for a way in which to use this GREEK alphabet > designwork of mine, pictured at the URL; > > http://www.slip.net/~navyblue > > The graphic on the right side of the screen is a letter-substitution >design. Very Simple. There are besides the obvious inferred visual >'likenesses' seen in all alphabets with the 'I/1' and the 'O/0'... letters >& >numerals, respectively; but that leaves EIGHT (8) NON-ROMAN >figures which are the Greek letters "Delta",, etc. Hey! after the 'ONE' and >the 'ZERO'...there are EIGHT (8)...'Arabic Numerals'! So >we can use them in place of the Greek Letters...only other business >being to turn 'L' ("GAMMA") and 'V' ("LAMBDA") 'Upside Down'...that is >'Right Side Up'for the letter-to-letter transliteration device shown >here under the title of "STAR." The scheme makes allowance only for the >Capital Letters & Numerals; much older in form than the 'Cursive.' > > There are many reasons why this may be a useful device, but the idea >for now is "Just for fun!" A quick keyboard notation. (And there are >other-such in the world, for Music Reference Library purposes; and as >pointed out, simple transliteration upon a Roman keyboard, say for the >rendering of Ancient Greek Coin Inscriptions, ..."in English!" But how this >("STAR") differs is in that is using corresponding likeness of shape of >letter to numeral, and has alloted each to the other, sorting methodically >by shapeforms, hoping to create a new way >in which to both advertise to Greek-Speakers, and help the novice who >may wish to learn Greek. > > And as the Roman Alphabet is a direct descendant of the Greek; this >makes a graffiti for celebrating the Ancient Civilizations of Europe! > > "Everything Changes..." this seems a way in which to make all things >"NEW", by the simple avoidance of taking away anything old! > > Please let me know if there is anyway I may be of service to the >Greek community, and I would very much like to submit draft proposals >implimenting such, for your inspection-when the occasion should arise. P.S. (This might be said to be the way in which to create browser-ads in the GREEK language...but can be created from the Roman keyboard!) > > Thank you, > > Casey Farrell > >tel: (415) 664-2489 > >@rainbowtexts@hotmail.com > >______________________________________________________ > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Was the salesman clueless? Productopia has the answers. >http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/1702 > > > >-- Talk to your group with your own voice! >-- >http://www.egroups.com/VoiceChatPage?listName=twentysixletters&m=1 > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-ietf-weird Mon Nov 22 15:22:35 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA29180 for ietf-weird-bks; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 15:22:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from c008.sfo.cp.net (c008-h008.c008.sfo.cp.net [209.228.14.197]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA29176 for ; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 15:22:34 -0800 (PST) Received: (cpmta 29959 invoked from network); 22 Nov 1999 15:24:24 -0800 Date: 22 Nov 1999 15:24:23 -0800 Message-ID: <19991122232423.29958.cpmta@c008.sfo.cp.net> X-Sent: 22 Nov 1999 23:24:23 GMT Received: from [216.185.31.85] by mail.giantsfan.com with HTTP; 22 Nov 1999 15:24:23 PST Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Mime-Version: 1.0 To: ietf-weird@imc.org From: 614275 GIANTS <614275@giantsfan.com> X-Mailer: Web Mail 3.3 Subject: New Type-Design... for Celebration of Greek Alphabet's 2400th Bitrhday! Sender: owner-ietf-weird@imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: ------- Start of forwarded message ------- Subject: New Type-Design... for Celebration of Greek Alphabet's 2400th Bitrhday! To: 614275@giantsfan.com Delivered-To: giantsfan.com%614275@giantsfan.com From: "Casey Farrell" X-Originating-Ip: [216.185.31.85] Cc: April_Marine@iengines.com Received: (cpmta 5227 invoked from network); 22 Nov 1999 15:16:00 -0800 from f43.law7.hotmail.com (HELO hotmail.com) (216.33.237.43) by smtp.c008.sfo.cp.net with SMTP; 22 Nov 1999 15:16:00 -0800 (qmail 78396 invoked by uid 0); 22 Nov 1999 23:15:51 -0000 from 216.185.31.85 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 15:15:49 PST Return-Path: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Content-Length: 6302 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Received: 22 Nov 1999 23:16:00 GMT Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 15:15:49 PST Message-Id: <19991122231551.78395.qmail@hotmail.com> Hi here, Mr. Hoffman, Ms. Marine, Chris Burke and IETF/WEIRD Club Members-this example shows then a typical way in which the other-half; or "GREEK" solution could be utilised, as seen at http://www.slip.net/~navyblue (in reference to yesterday's post "BAOZI" (Chinese))But to plainly state "what-it-is", that I'm designing; let's just call it "New-TV?" Last night on PBS they had a program; New York City Television History and the upshot was that "if only TV could be seperated from the Madison Avenue people, just long enough to allow for the natural growth of the medium, in order that the public might be able to se the full potentiality as an art form...?" WOODY ALLEN, ROD STIEGER, etc.! The same may be said of the "Internet;"( read "WEB-TV," TiVo, etc. ) There is going to be PLENTY of REVENUES for EVERYONE...so...? Would it be 'allright' if the people who DON'T understand the FUTURE MEDIA please just sit in the backseat with their mouths shut? We'll pay you! I'm not kidding, it's like some many other enterprises in the last 30-years...it is kind of a 'superstition' with these 'big-wigs' they just don't think anything will sell unless they have a kid beating on a garbage can in a ghetto! "We" ...( THE... real... genuine... people) DO NOT WANT OUR CLOTHES, PERFUME, CARS, ETC., to come from a GARBAGE CAN in A GHETTO! One question? WHAT DO YOU THINK 'they' WERE TALKING ABOUT WHEN 'they' MENTIONED..."VOODOO-(read 'Doo-Doo)ECONOMICS?" That's right, just like in '1984; they laid the truth on you but you wouldn't listen! YOU ARE GETTING THE INFERIOR 'STUFF!" I'd like to see a 'modern' Internet. How about you? But with 'info' it cannot be..."BY DEFINITION"...all 'Nuts & Bolts' (MECHANICAL!) At some point...ENGLISH SPELLING will have to be 'reformed!' Right? Write? Rite? Wright? Huh? ( as well, many languages still have NO writing system...or MANY! So they 'ain't ready for 'PrimeTime!') Phony Hindu accent on TV ad ..."Are you RRRReady?"("for Internet?") "Sheesh!", "Come off of it!", " Next!" ( Let's cut the 'baloney'!) But if we wanted to just do "Op-Art" perhaps the easiest fast look at an example of "fun" ...'solutions', can be seen at http://www.slip.net/~o614275 Which is the "DIGITALIZATION" of the "GIANTS!" baseball logo. A very "Y2K READY" design? Unbelievable as it may sound, many of the varied works I design are made to go together as part of a larger "picture"...and one of those "pictures" can be found at http://www.cam.org/home/Wcoprod/mmpro.htm first page; 2nd Item, "CALIFORNIA STAR" and that is the 'formatting' of information 'by design' for the eventual 'convergence' of the technocratic jumble of networking which soon will require some semblance of organization. Best method for creating stanards? At the state school-text level! So this is a design for "DIGITAL HIGH SCHOOLS" (AB 64 Mazzoni) NEW SCIENCE IS HARD ON OLD BRAINS! >From: "Casey Farrell" >Reply-To: twentysixletters@egroups.com >To: twentysixletters@egroups.com >CC: oldscripts@hotmail.com >Subject: [twentysixletters] New Type-Design... for Celebration of Greek >Alphabet's 2400th Bitrhday! >Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 11:30:59 PST > >Casey Farrell; Designer Monday >San Francisco, CA Nov. 22, 1999 > >Attn: GREEK INET > 72 Mozden Lane > Pleasant Hill, CA > > Dear Marketing Manager, > > I am looking for a way in which to use this GREEK alphabet > designwork of mine, pictured at the URL; > > http://www.slip.net/~navyblue > > The graphic on the right side of the screen is a letter-substitution >design. Very Simple. There are besides the obvious inferred visual >'likenesses' seen in all alphabets with the 'I/1' and the 'O/0'... letters >& >numerals, respectively; but that leaves EIGHT (8) NON-ROMAN >figures which are the Greek letters "Delta",, etc. Hey! after the 'ONE' and >the 'ZERO'...there are EIGHT (8)...'Arabic Numerals'! So >we can use them in place of the Greek Letters...only other business >being to turn 'L' ("GAMMA") and 'V' ("LAMBDA") 'Upside Down'...that is >'Right Side Up'for the letter-to-letter transliteration device shown >here under the title of "STAR." The scheme makes allowance only for the >Capital Letters & Numerals; much older in form than the 'Cursive.' > > There are many reasons why this may be a useful device, but the idea >for now is "Just for fun!" A quick keyboard notation. (And there are >other-such in the world, for Music Reference Library purposes; and as >pointed out, simple transliteration upon a Roman keyboard, say for the >rendering of Ancient Greek Coin Inscriptions, ..."in English!" But how this >("STAR") differs is in that is using corresponding likeness of shape of >letter to numeral, and has alloted each to the other, sorting methodically >by shapeforms, hoping to create a new way >in which to both advertise to Greek-Speakers, and help the novice who >may wish to learn Greek. > > And as the Roman Alphabet is a direct descendant of the Greek; this >makes a graffiti for celebrating the Ancient Civilizations of Europe! > > "Everything Changes..." this seems a way in which to make all things >"NEW", by the simple avoidance of taking away anything old! > > Please let me know if there is anyway I may be of service to the >Greek community, and I would very much like to submit draft proposals >implimenting such, for your inspection-when the occasion should arise. P.S. (This might be said to be the way in which to create browser-ads in the GREEK language...but can be created from the Roman keyboard!) > > Thank you, > > Casey Farrell > >tel: (415) 664-2489 > >@rainbowtexts@hotmail.com > >______________________________________________________ > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Was the salesman clueless? Productopia has the answers. >http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/1702 > > > >-- Talk to your group with your own voice! >-- >http://www.egroups.com/VoiceChatPage?listName=twentysixletters&m=1 > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------- End of forwarded message ------- __________________________________________________________ The Going Away Party! Giants Baseball 1999 Giants Fan Email - Official Email of the San Francisco Giants Get your free Giants Fan Email account http://www.sfgiants.com From owner-ietf-weird Mon Nov 22 15:28:01 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA29290 for ietf-weird-bks; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 15:28:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from isrv3.pa.vix.com (isrv3.pa.vix.com [204.152.184.182]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA29286 for ; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 15:28:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from bb.rc.vix.com (bb.rc.vix.com [204.152.187.11]) by isrv3.pa.vix.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) via ESMTP id PAA16423 for ; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 15:29:36 -0800 (PST) env-from (April_Marine@iengines.com) Received: from localhost (amarine@localhost) by bb.rc.vix.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) via SMTP id PAA22040 for ; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 15:29:36 -0800 (PST) env-from (April_Marine@iengines.com) Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 15:29:36 -0800 (PST) From: April Marine X-Sender: amarine@bb.rc.vix.com To: WEIRD WG Subject: reported to postmaster@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <19991122232423.29958.cpmta@c008.sfo.cp.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ietf-weird@imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: For the heck of it, I reported this spam to the postmaster at Hotmail. Don't know about y'all, but I've received about half a dozen copies of it. April On 22 Nov 1999, 614275 GIANTS wrote: > ------- Start of forwarded message ------- > > Subject: New Type-Design... for Celebration of Greek Alphabet's 2400th Bitrhday! > To: 614275@giantsfan.com > Delivered-To: giantsfan.com%614275@giantsfan.com > From: "Casey Farrell" > X-Originating-Ip: [216.185.31.85] > Cc: April_Marine@iengines.com > Received: (cpmta 5227 invoked from network); 22 Nov 1999 15:16:00 -0800 > from f43.law7.hotmail.com (HELO hotmail.com) (216.33.237.43) > by smtp.c008.sfo.cp.net with SMTP; 22 Nov 1999 15:16:00 -0800 > (qmail 78396 invoked by uid 0); 22 Nov 1999 23:15:51 -0000 > from 216.185.31.85 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; > Mon, 22 Nov 1999 15:15:49 PST > Return-Path: > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > Content-Length: 6302 > Mime-Version: 1.0 > X-Received: 22 Nov 1999 23:16:00 GMT > Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 15:15:49 PST > Message-Id: <19991122231551.78395.qmail@hotmail.com> > > Hi here, Mr. Hoffman, Ms. Marine, Chris Burke and IETF/WEIRD Club > Members-this example shows then a typical way in which the other-half; or > "GREEK" solution could be utilised, as seen at > > http://www.slip.net/~navyblue > > (in reference to yesterday's post "BAOZI" (Chinese))But to plainly > state "what-it-is", that I'm designing; let's just call it "New-TV?" > Last night on PBS they had a program; New York City Television History > and the upshot was that "if only TV could be seperated from the Madison > Avenue people, just long enough to allow for the natural growth of the > medium, in order that the public might be able to se the > full potentiality as an art form...?" WOODY ALLEN, ROD STIEGER, etc.! > > The same may be said of the "Internet;"( read "WEB-TV," TiVo, etc. ) > There is going to be PLENTY of REVENUES for EVERYONE...so....? Would > it be 'allright' if the people who DON'T understand the FUTURE MEDIA > please just sit in the backseat with their mouths shut? We'll pay you! > I'm not kidding, it's like some many other enterprises in the last > 30-years...it is kind of a 'superstition' with these 'big-wigs' they just > don't think anything will sell unless they have a kid beating on a garbage > can in a ghetto! "We" ...( THE... real... genuine... people) > DO NOT WANT OUR CLOTHES, PERFUME, CARS, ETC., to come from a GARBAGE CAN in > A GHETTO! One question? WHAT DO YOU THINK 'they' WERE TALKING > ABOUT WHEN 'they' MENTIONED..."VOODOO-(read 'Doo-Doo)ECONOMICS?" > That's right, just like in '1984; they laid the truth on you but you > wouldn't listen! YOU ARE GETTING THE INFERIOR 'STUFF!" > > I'd like to see a 'modern' Internet. How about you? But with 'info' > it cannot be..."BY DEFINITION"...all 'Nuts & Bolts' (MECHANICAL!) > > At some point...ENGLISH SPELLING will have to be 'reformed!' Right? > Write? Rite? Wright? Huh? ( as well, many languages still have > NO writing system...or MANY! So they 'ain't ready for 'PrimeTime!') > > Phony Hindu accent on TV ad ..."Are you RRRReady?"("for Internet?") > > "Sheesh!", "Come off of it!", " Next!" ( Let's cut the 'baloney'!) > > But if we wanted to just do "Op-Art" perhaps the easiest fast look > at an example of "fun" ...'solutions', can be seen at > > http://www.slip.net/~o614275 > > Which is the "DIGITALIZATION" of the "GIANTS!" baseball logo. A very > "Y2K READY" design? > > Unbelievable as it may sound, many of the varied works I design are > made to go together as part of a larger "picture"...and one of those > "pictures" can be found at > > http://www.cam.org/home/Wcoprod/mmpro.htm > > first page; 2nd Item, "CALIFORNIA STAR" > > and that is the 'formatting' of information 'by design' for the > eventual 'convergence' of the technocratic jumble of networking which > soon will require some semblance of organization. > > Best method for creating stanards? At the state school-text level! > > So this is a design for "DIGITAL HIGH SCHOOLS" (AB 64 Mazzoni) > > NEW SCIENCE IS HARD ON OLD BRAINS! > > > >From: "Casey Farrell" > >Reply-To: twentysixletters@egroups.com > >To: twentysixletters@egroups.com > >CC: oldscripts@hotmail.com > >Subject: [twentysixletters] New Type-Design... for Celebration of Greek > >Alphabet's 2400th Bitrhday! > >Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 11:30:59 PST > > > >Casey Farrell; Designer Monday > >San Francisco, CA Nov. 22, 1999 > > > >Attn: GREEK INET > > 72 Mozden Lane > > Pleasant Hill, CA > > > > Dear Marketing Manager, > > > > I am looking for a way in which to use this GREEK alphabet > > designwork of mine, pictured at the URL; > > > > http://www.slip.net/~navyblue > > > > The graphic on the right side of the screen is a letter-substitution > >design. Very Simple. There are besides the obvious inferred visual > >'likenesses' seen in all alphabets with the 'I/1' and the 'O/0'... letters > >& > >numerals, respectively; but that leaves EIGHT (8) NON-ROMAN > >figures which are the Greek letters "Delta",, etc. Hey! after the 'ONE' and > >the 'ZERO'...there are EIGHT (8)...'Arabic Numerals'! So > >we can use them in place of the Greek Letters...only other business > >being to turn 'L' ("GAMMA") and 'V' ("LAMBDA") 'Upside Down'...that is > >'Right Side Up'for the letter-to-letter transliteration device shown > >here under the title of "STAR." The scheme makes allowance only for the > >Capital Letters & Numerals; much older in form than the 'Cursive.' > > > > There are many reasons why this may be a useful device, but the idea > >for now is "Just for fun!" A quick keyboard notation. (And there are > >other-such in the world, for Music Reference Library purposes; and as > >pointed out, simple transliteration upon a Roman keyboard, say for the > >rendering of Ancient Greek Coin Inscriptions, ..."in English!" But how this > >("STAR") differs is in that is using corresponding likeness of shape of > >letter to numeral, and has alloted each to the other, sorting methodically > >by shapeforms, hoping to create a new way > >in which to both advertise to Greek-Speakers, and help the novice who > >may wish to learn Greek. > > > > And as the Roman Alphabet is a direct descendant of the Greek; this > >makes a graffiti for celebrating the Ancient Civilizations of Europe! > > > > "Everything Changes..." this seems a way in which to make all things > >"NEW", by the simple avoidance of taking away anything old! > > > > Please let me know if there is anyway I may be of service to the > >Greek community, and I would very much like to submit draft proposals > >implimenting such, for your inspection-when the occasion should arise. > > P.S. (This might be said to be the way in which to create browser-ads > in the GREEK language...but can be created from the Roman keyboard!) > > > > Thank you, > > > > Casey Farrell > > > >tel: (415) 664-2489 > > > >@rainbowtexts@hotmail.com > > > >______________________________________________________ > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >Was the salesman clueless? Productopia has the answers. > >http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/1702 > > > > > > > >-- Talk to your group with your own voice! > >-- > >http://www.egroups.com/VoiceChatPage?listName=twentysixletters&m=1 > > > > > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > ------- End of forwarded message ------- > > > __________________________________________________________ > The Going Away Party! Giants Baseball 1999 > Giants Fan Email - Official Email of the San Francisco Giants > Get your free Giants Fan Email account http://www.sfgiants.com > > From owner-ietf-weird Tue Nov 23 05:39:00 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA00903 for ietf-weird-bks; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 05:39:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from ops2.nic.mil (ops2.nic.mil [192.112.38.5]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA00895 for ; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 05:38:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (plzak@localhost) by ops2.nic.mil (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA04433; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 08:39:06 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 08:39:06 -0500 (EST) From: Ray Plzak To: April Marine cc: WEIRD WG Subject: Re: reported to postmaster@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ietf-weird@imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: April, I received 3 copies. Ray On Mon, 22 Nov 1999, April Marine wrote: > For the heck of it, I reported this spam to the postmaster at Hotmail. > Don't know about y'all, but I've received about half a dozen copies of it. > > April > > On 22 Nov 1999, 614275 GIANTS wrote: > > > ------- Start of forwarded message ------- > > > > Subject: New Type-Design... for Celebration of Greek Alphabet's 2400th Bitrhday! > > To: 614275@giantsfan.com > > Delivered-To: giantsfan.com%614275@giantsfan.com > > From: "Casey Farrell" > > X-Originating-Ip: [216.185.31.85] > > Cc: April_Marine@iengines.com > > Received: (cpmta 5227 invoked from network); 22 Nov 1999 15:16:00 -0800 > > from f43.law7.hotmail.com (HELO hotmail.com) (216.33.237.43) > > by smtp.c008.sfo.cp.net with SMTP; 22 Nov 1999 15:16:00 -0800 > > (qmail 78396 invoked by uid 0); 22 Nov 1999 23:15:51 -0000 > > from 216.185.31.85 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; > > Mon, 22 Nov 1999 15:15:49 PST > > Return-Path: > > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > > Content-Length: 6302 > > Mime-Version: 1.0 > > X-Received: 22 Nov 1999 23:16:00 GMT > > Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 15:15:49 PST > > Message-Id: <19991122231551.78395.qmail@hotmail.com> > > > > Hi here, Mr. Hoffman, Ms. Marine, Chris Burke and IETF/WEIRD Club > > Members-this example shows then a typical way in which the other-half; or > > "GREEK" solution could be utilised, as seen at > > > > http://www.slip.net/~navyblue > > > > (in reference to yesterday's post "BAOZI" (Chinese))But to plainly > > state "what-it-is", that I'm designing; let's just call it "New-TV?" > > Last night on PBS they had a program; New York City Television History > > and the upshot was that "if only TV could be seperated from the Madison > > Avenue people, just long enough to allow for the natural growth of the > > medium, in order that the public might be able to se the > > full potentiality as an art form...?" WOODY ALLEN, ROD STIEGER, etc.! > > > > The same may be said of the "Internet;"( read "WEB-TV," TiVo, etc. ) > > There is going to be PLENTY of REVENUES for EVERYONE...so....? Would > > it be 'allright' if the people who DON'T understand the FUTURE MEDIA > > please just sit in the backseat with their mouths shut? We'll pay you! > > I'm not kidding, it's like some many other enterprises in the last > > 30-years...it is kind of a 'superstition' with these 'big-wigs' they just > > don't think anything will sell unless they have a kid beating on a garbage > > can in a ghetto! "We" ...( THE... real... genuine... people) > > DO NOT WANT OUR CLOTHES, PERFUME, CARS, ETC., to come from a GARBAGE CAN in > > A GHETTO! One question? WHAT DO YOU THINK 'they' WERE TALKING > > ABOUT WHEN 'they' MENTIONED..."VOODOO-(read 'Doo-Doo)ECONOMICS?" > > That's right, just like in '1984; they laid the truth on you but you > > wouldn't listen! YOU ARE GETTING THE INFERIOR 'STUFF!" > > > > I'd like to see a 'modern' Internet. How about you? But with 'info' > > it cannot be..."BY DEFINITION"...all 'Nuts & Bolts' (MECHANICAL!) > > > > At some point...ENGLISH SPELLING will have to be 'reformed!' Right? > > Write? Rite? Wright? Huh? ( as well, many languages still have > > NO writing system...or MANY! So they 'ain't ready for 'PrimeTime!') > > > > Phony Hindu accent on TV ad ..."Are you RRRReady?"("for Internet?") > > > > "Sheesh!", "Come off of it!", " Next!" ( Let's cut the 'baloney'!) > > > > But if we wanted to just do "Op-Art" perhaps the easiest fast look > > at an example of "fun" ...'solutions', can be seen at > > > > http://www.slip.net/~o614275 > > > > Which is the "DIGITALIZATION" of the "GIANTS!" baseball logo. A very > > "Y2K READY" design? > > > > Unbelievable as it may sound, many of the varied works I design are > > made to go together as part of a larger "picture"...and one of those > > "pictures" can be found at > > > > http://www.cam.org/home/Wcoprod/mmpro.htm > > > > first page; 2nd Item, "CALIFORNIA STAR" > > > > and that is the 'formatting' of information 'by design' for the > > eventual 'convergence' of the technocratic jumble of networking which > > soon will require some semblance of organization. > > > > Best method for creating stanards? At the state school-text level! > > > > So this is a design for "DIGITAL HIGH SCHOOLS" (AB 64 Mazzoni) > > > > NEW SCIENCE IS HARD ON OLD BRAINS! > > > > > > >From: "Casey Farrell" > > >Reply-To: twentysixletters@egroups.com > > >To: twentysixletters@egroups.com > > >CC: oldscripts@hotmail.com > > >Subject: [twentysixletters] New Type-Design... for Celebration of Greek > > >Alphabet's 2400th Bitrhday! > > >Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 11:30:59 PST > > > > > >Casey Farrell; Designer Monday > > >San Francisco, CA Nov. 22, 1999 > > > > > >Attn: GREEK INET > > > 72 Mozden Lane > > > Pleasant Hill, CA > > > > > > Dear Marketing Manager, > > > > > > I am looking for a way in which to use this GREEK alphabet > > > designwork of mine, pictured at the URL; > > > > > > http://www.slip.net/~navyblue > > > > > > The graphic on the right side of the screen is a letter-substitution > > >design. Very Simple. There are besides the obvious inferred visual > > >'likenesses' seen in all alphabets with the 'I/1' and the 'O/0'... letters > > >& > > >numerals, respectively; but that leaves EIGHT (8) NON-ROMAN > > >figures which are the Greek letters "Delta",, etc. Hey! after the 'ONE' and > > >the 'ZERO'...there are EIGHT (8)...'Arabic Numerals'! So > > >we can use them in place of the Greek Letters...only other business > > >being to turn 'L' ("GAMMA") and 'V' ("LAMBDA") 'Upside Down'...that is > > >'Right Side Up'for the letter-to-letter transliteration device shown > > >here under the title of "STAR." The scheme makes allowance only for the > > >Capital Letters & Numerals; much older in form than the 'Cursive.' > > > > > > There are many reasons why this may be a useful device, but the idea > > >for now is "Just for fun!" A quick keyboard notation. (And there are > > >other-such in the world, for Music Reference Library purposes; and as > > >pointed out, simple transliteration upon a Roman keyboard, say for the > > >rendering of Ancient Greek Coin Inscriptions, ..."in English!" But how this > > >("STAR") differs is in that is using corresponding likeness of shape of > > >letter to numeral, and has alloted each to the other, sorting methodically > > >by shapeforms, hoping to create a new way > > >in which to both advertise to Greek-Speakers, and help the novice who > > >may wish to learn Greek. > > > > > > And as the Roman Alphabet is a direct descendant of the Greek; this > > >makes a graffiti for celebrating the Ancient Civilizations of Europe! > > > > > > "Everything Changes..." this seems a way in which to make all things > > >"NEW", by the simple avoidance of taking away anything old! > > > > > > Please let me know if there is anyway I may be of service to the > > >Greek community, and I would very much like to submit draft proposals > > >implimenting such, for your inspection-when the occasion should arise. > > > > P.S. (This might be said to be the way in which to create browser-ads > > in the GREEK language...but can be created from the Roman keyboard!) > > > > > > Thank you, > > > > > > Casey Farrell > > > > > >tel: (415) 664-2489 > > > > > >@rainbowtexts@hotmail.com > > > > > >______________________________________________________ > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > >Was the salesman clueless? Productopia has the answers. > > >http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/1702 > > > > > > > > > > > >-- Talk to your group with your own voice! > > >-- > > >http://www.egroups.com/VoiceChatPage?listName=twentysixletters&m=1 > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________ > > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > > > ------- End of forwarded message ------- > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > The Going Away Party! Giants Baseball 1999 > > Giants Fan Email - Official Email of the San Francisco Giants > > Get your free Giants Fan Email account http://www.sfgiants.com > > > > > > From owner-ietf-weird Tue Nov 23 10:43:35 1999 Received: by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA10402 for ietf-weird-bks; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 10:43:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from rgfsparc.cr.usgs.gov (rgfsparc.cr.usgs.gov [136.177.164.192]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA10398 for ; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 10:43:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from rgfsparc.cr.usgs.gov (rgfsparc.cr.usgs.gov [136.177.164.192]) by rgfsparc.cr.usgs.gov (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA02243 for ; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 12:43:46 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199911231843.MAA02243@rgfsparc.cr.usgs.gov> Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 12:43:46 -0600 (CST) From: "Robert G. Ferrell" Reply-To: "Robert G. Ferrell" Subject: Re: reported to postmaster@hotmail.com To: ietf-weird@imc.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-MD5: COB9+24Hs4O4oR+RhuAoyg== X-Mailer: dtmail 1.3.0 CDE Version 1.3 SunOS 5.7 sun4u sparc Sender: owner-ietf-weird@imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: >For the heck of it, I reported this spam to the postmaster at Hotmail. >Don't know about y'all, but I've received about half a dozen copies of it. > I've gotten 5 so far. I read through the first one quite carefully, trying to figure out if there was any conceivable relevance to WEIRD buried in there somewhere. I even wrote to Chris yesterday to ask if there was a sequitur I somehow missed. You'd think if this clown wanted to spam someone, he'd follow standard procedure and spam the entire IETF.... RGF Robert G. Ferrell Internet Technologist National Business Center, US DoI Robert_G_Ferrell@nbc.gov From owner-ietf-weird Thu Nov 25 19:19:31 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA25415 for ietf-weird-bks; Thu, 25 Nov 1999 19:19:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from deathstar.comnet.ca (deathstar.comnet.ca [205.206.213.2]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA25408 for ; Thu, 25 Nov 1999 19:19:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from iaai.ca (dynamic-584.comnet.ca [206.75.143.140]) by deathstar.comnet.ca (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA04641; Thu, 25 Nov 1999 22:21:19 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <383DFBC9.14860DD6@iaai.ca> Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 22:17:29 -0500 From: Bernie Monette X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Burke Chris-CCB007 , "'ietf-weird@imc.org'" Subject: Re: Update on WEIRD WG Meeting at IETF 46 References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-weird@imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Greetings! I would be interested in taking a stab at some of these things-should I just dive in or is something else needed? Bernie Monette InterActive Arts Internet Presence Management http://www.iaai.ca mailto:monette@iaai.ca (416) 523-4972 Burke Chris-CCB007 wrote: > > The official meeting minutes will be out in a few days, meanwhile here's a > quick update on some content-creation procedures we discussed in Washington, > DC. About 12 people attended the WG meeting. > > We discussed creating a set of templates for the different kinds of content > to go on the WEIRD web site. We need templates for at least these kinds of > content: > - Area Director's Plan / News > - Hot Topics (separate templates for initial data collection and for > updates) > - IETF Participant Needs Questionnaire (ask what info would have made people > better-informed participants) > - Birds-of-a-Feather Sessions > > I presented a strawman template for an Area Director's Plan / News, and we > revised it a bit in the meeting. So far it looks like this: > - BOFs happening this IETF in this Area, and what if any 'big picture' > they're part of > - AD's general architectural vision for the area > - AD's view of relationships of work in the area to work of other WGs in > same or other areas > - Update on changes in area procedures that might be good for IETF attendees > or press to know about > > During the working group meeting we developed a strawman template for Hot > Topics information. So far it looks like this: > - What is it (30 words or less) > - Which working groups in IETF address this, what are their perspectives > - How are the activities on this topic in different working groups related / > interdependent > - What are the current status, time scales, expected short-term > developments. > - Date on all information (aging) > - Extended comments if any > - What else is important that's not on the template > - Who is implementing it (????) > - Who are you? > -> Identification / credit > -> Credentials? > -> Disclaimer / individuality vs institutional opinion > - Links > -> mailing lists > -> additional information (URLs) to WGs -> chairs, ADs > -> repository identified > -> n.b. don't want press directed to WG mailing lists > -> Related work going on, outside the IETF > -> If you read nothing else, read this... > > The idea is to find knowledgeable people to make an initial write-up on a > topic, answering the questions in the template. There was some discussion on > what happens next, but general agreement that we need to document the policy > / process for taking the initial write-up and turning it into a web page, so > that everyone understands it. > > We didn't come up with a process, but did make a list of process issues. The > list of process issues looks like this right now: > - Policy > -> Solicited vs unsolicited information > --->> Who has the "authority" to fill out templates? > --->> Identification of experts > -> "Letters to the Editor" > - Editorial function (if any) > - Aging (of information) > - Archival procedures / metadata / searchability > - Implementation / deployment > - Data collection methodology > -> Newsgroups, e-mail lists, forms, explicit solicitation, etc. > - Openness > - Commitment (timely completion, ongoing maintenance, etc) > > If you want to take a stab at improving the templates, or defining a > content-creation process, or have other thoughts on the work done at IETF > 46, please write the list! > > Reminder: the following people volunteered a few weeks back to help create > content for the WEIRD web pages: Erica Zeinfeld, Robert Patzer, Robert > Ferrell, Robert Stephens, Katherine Bosovich, Tag Carpenter, Chris Burke. > The volunteers, at least, should have some thoughts on what the templates > and process should be! > > Another Reminder: The Hot Topics identified so far include IPv6, IP > telephony, QoS, Security, and Multicast. > > Regards, > > Chris Burke From owner-ietf-weird Tue Nov 30 22:36:51 1999 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA06315 for ietf-weird-bks; Tue, 30 Nov 1999 22:36:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from guardian.apnic.net (guardian.apnic.net [203.37.255.100]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA06310 for ; Tue, 30 Nov 1999 22:36:48 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mail@localhost) by guardian.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA10853 for ; Wed, 1 Dec 1999 16:39:12 +1000 (EST) Received: from julubu.staff.apnic.net(192.168.1.37) by int-gw.staff.apnic.net via smap (V2.1) id xma010851; Wed, 1 Dec 99 16:38:50 +1000 Received: (from bc@localhost) by julubu.staff.apnic.net (8.8.7/UW7.1.0) id QAA25006; Wed, 1 Dec 1999 16:41:49 +1000 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: julubu.staff.apnic.net: bc set sender to bruce.campbell@apnic.net using -f Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 16:41:48 +1000 (EST) From: Bruce Campbell To: "'ietf-weird@imc.org'" Subject: IETF Working Group, Chair, and RFC Trivia (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ietf-weird@imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Right, a list of WGs around, now for some templates. --==-- Bruce. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Rahmat M. Samik-Ibrahim Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 15:12:11 +0800 To: MILIS IETF Subject: IETF Working Group, Chair, and RFC Trivia Hello: An update file of WG names, Chairs, and RFC produced/evaluated by WGs is available at: WG Names and Chairs: http://dullatip.vlsm.org/ietf-wg.txt RFC Products: http://dullatip.vlsm.org/ietf-prod.txt Those are "guesstimate" only with no accuracy warranty. It is assumed that if it exists in 1990 and 1999, that the WG exists continuously from 1990 to 1999. Same for WG chairs. Nonetheless, it gives me an idea about how a WG archive is supposed to be, just in case RFC-2418 (Working Group Guidelines) is going to be updated. The WGs that have been "rediscovered" are as following: - 8< - ZCZC F.31 ---------------------------------------------------- Applications (app) acap, calsh, cnrp, conneg, dasl, deltav, drums, ediint, fax, ftpext, http, impp, ipp, ldapext, ldup, lsma, madman, msgtrk, nntpext, printmib, schema, tn3270e, trade, urlreg, urn, usefor, webdav, wrec. 822ext*, asid*, edi*, imap*, mimemhs*, mhtml*, netdata*, netfax*, nntp*, notary*, npp*, oda*, osids*, smtpext*, telnet*, tip*, x400ops*. General (gen) poisson. poised*, poised95*. Internet (int) atommib, dhc, dnsind, frnetmib, ifmib, ion, ip1394, ipcdn, ipfc, ipngwg, ipvbi, l2tpext, pppext, svrloc, zeroconf. appleip*, atm*, cip*, fddi*, ipatm*, iplpdn*, mmb*, mpsnmp*, mtudisc*, pktway*, ppp*, rdisc*, rreq*, smds*, st2*. IP Next Generation (ipng) <--> int(<1993,>1996) ale*, catnip*, ipae*, pip*, sip*, sipp*, tpix*, tuba*. Network Management (mgt) --> ops acct*, allerman*, charmib*, chassis*, decnetiv*, ethermib*, fddimib*, hostmib*, modemmgt*, msi*, oim*, rdbmsmib*, snanau*, snmp*, snmpv2*, transmib*, trmon*, trunkmib*, upsmib*, x25mib*. Operations and Management (ops) 2000, aaa, adslmib, agentx, bmwg, bridge, disman, dnsop, entmib, grip, hubmib, mboned, nasreq, ngtrans, policy, ptopomib, radius, rmonmib, roamops, rps, snmpv3, tewg. bgpdepl*, check*, cidrd*, gisd*, netstat*, njm*, noop*, opstat*, ucp*. OSI Integration osigen*, osinsap*, osix400*, osix500*. Routing (rtg) bgmp, dlswmib, gsmp, idmr, idr, isis, manet, mobileip, mospf, mpls, msdp, ospf, pim, rip, snadlc, udlr, vrrp. bgp*, idpr*, ipidrp*, iwg*, orwg*, pdnrout*, ripv2*, rolc*, sdr*. Service Applications (sap) --> int dns*, mhsds*, thinosi*, tnfs*. Security (sec) aft, cat, openpgp, dnssec, idwg, ipsec, otp, pkix, secsh, smime, spki, stime, tls, wts, xmldsig. aac*, cipso*, ident*, ipauth*, pem*, saag*, snmpsec*, spwg*. Transport (tsv) avt, diffserv, ecm, enum, intserv, ippm, iptel, issll, malloc, megaco, mmusic, nat, nfsv4, oncrpc, pint, pilc, rap, rmt, rsvp, rtfm, sigtran, sip, spirits, tcpimpl, tcpsat, tsvwg. dfs*, dns*, tcplw*. User Services Area (usv) <-- Host fyiup, run, uswg, weird. disi*, iafa*, ids*, iiir*, isn*, iup*, mimecont*, nir*, nisi*, noctool2*, shr*, ssh*, trainmat*, uri*, userdoc, userdoc2*, userglos*, wnils*. - 8< - NNNN F.31 ---------------------------------------------------- -- - Rahmat M. Samik-Ibrahim VLSM-TJT -- http://www.vlsm.org/rms46/ - - Get your own free Ph.D. degree from UCLS - http://ucls.vlsm.org - From owner-ietf-weird Tue Dec 7 13:15:20 1999 Received: by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA03491 for ietf-weird-bks; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 13:15:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from ftpbox.mot.com (ftpbox.mot.com [129.188.136.101]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA03484 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 13:15:19 -0800 (PST) Received: [from pobox2.mot.com (pobox2.mot.com [136.182.15.8]) by ftpbox.mot.com (MOT-ftpbox 1.0) with ESMTP id OAA06850 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 14:18:23 -0700 (MST)] Received: [from s-il06ar.corp.mot.com (s-il06ar.corp.mot.com [199.2.152.27]) by pobox2.mot.com (MOT-pobox2 2.0) with ESMTP id OAA09813 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 14:18:23 -0700 (MST)] Received: by s-il06ar.corp.mot.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 15:18:22 -0600 Message-ID: From: Burke Chris-CCB007 To: "'ietf-weird@imc.org'" Subject: Templates? Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 15:18:22 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ietf-weird@imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Anyone care to propose templates for collecting information about: - Hot Topics - BOF Sessions - Area Director's plan/news/overview - IETF Participant Exit Poll (what would have helped you participate better?) Chris Burke From owner-ietf-weird Wed Dec 15 22:34:08 1999 Received: by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA21026 for ietf-weird-bks; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 22:34:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from deathstar.comnet.ca (deathstar.comnet.ca [205.206.213.2]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA21016 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 22:33:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from iaai.ca (dynamic-581.comnet.ca [206.75.143.137]) by deathstar.comnet.ca (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA02404; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 01:37:00 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <385887AA.311B7A4F@iaai.ca> Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 01:33:14 -0500 From: Bernie Monette X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Burke Chris-CCB007 , "'ietf-weird@imc.org'" Subject: Re: Templates? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-weird@imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Chris et.al.; I have put together a preliminary template at http://www.iaai.ca/weird I welcome your comments. About the design: I have kept the WEIRD moniker. Principally because it is rather interesting and considering the target audience I think it will get and keep their attention. The design is also brighter than most of the IETF pages for the same reason. I do not know if there should be required elements, formats, and so on. Fire away. Bernie Bernie Monette InterActive Arts Internet Presence Management http://www.iaai.ca mailto:monette2iaai.ca (416) 469-4337 Burke Chris-CCB007 wrote: > > Anyone care to propose templates for collecting information about: > > - Hot Topics > - BOF Sessions > - Area Director's plan/news/overview > - IETF Participant Exit Poll (what would have helped you participate > better?) > > Chris Burke From owner-ietf-weird Fri Jan 28 11:32:46 2000 Received: by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA11257 for ietf-weird-bks; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 11:32:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from motgate2.mot.com (motgate2.mot.com [136.182.1.10]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA11253 for ; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 11:32:44 -0800 (PST) Received: [from pobox.mot.com (pobox.mot.com [129.188.137.100]) by motgate2.mot.com (VWALL-IN-motgate2 2.0) with ESMTP id MAA17613 for ; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 12:34:41 -0700 (MST)] Received: [from s-il06ak.corp.mot.com (s-il06ak.corp.mot.com [199.2.152.59]) by pobox.mot.com (MOT-pobox 2.0) with ESMTP id MAA22137 for ; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 12:34:40 -0700 (MST)] Received: by s-il06ak.corp.mot.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 13:34:40 -0600 Message-ID: From: Burke Chris-CCB007 To: Burke Chris-CCB007 , "'ietf-weird@imc.org'" Subject: AGENDA: WEIRD IN ADELAIDE... Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 13:34:39 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ietf-weird@imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Oh, and does anyone have any special agenda items? Chris > -----Original Message----- > From: Burke Chris-CCB007 [SMTP:Chris.Burke@motorola.com] > Sent: Friday, January 28, 2000 11:32 AM > To: 'ietf-weird@imc.org' > Subject: WEIRD IN ADELAIDE? > > Does anybody care what day / time we meet? Let me know so I can schedule > the > meeting. > > Chris Burke From owner-ietf-weird Fri Jan 28 11:30:14 2000 Received: by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA11223 for ietf-weird-bks; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 11:30:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from ftpbox.mot.com (ftpbox.mot.com [129.188.136.101]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA11219 for ; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 11:30:12 -0800 (PST) Received: [from pobox2.mot.com (pobox2.mot.com [136.182.15.8]) by ftpbox.mot.com (VWALL-IN-ftpbox 2.0) with ESMTP id MAA09634 for ; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 12:32:08 -0700 (MST)] Received: [from s-il06al.corp.mot.com (s-il06al.corp.mot.com [199.2.152.60]) by pobox2.mot.com (MOT-pobox2 2.0) with ESMTP id MAA12125 for ; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 12:32:08 -0700 (MST)] Received: by s-il06al.corp.mot.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 13:32:07 -0600 Message-ID: From: Burke Chris-CCB007 To: "'ietf-weird@imc.org'" Subject: WEIRD IN ADELAIDE? Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 13:31:59 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ietf-weird@imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Does anybody care what day / time we meet? Let me know so I can schedule the meeting. Chris Burke From owner-ietf-weird Tue Feb 1 15:04:18 2000 Received: by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA24437 for ietf-weird-bks; Tue, 1 Feb 2000 15:04:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from comnet.ca (comnet.ca [207.107.47.2]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA24421 for ; Tue, 1 Feb 2000 15:04:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from iaai.ca (dynamic-576.comnet.ca [206.186.72.132]) by comnet.ca (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA04904 for ; Tue, 1 Feb 2000 18:06:17 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <389765CB.12D5BFA8@iaai.ca> Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 18:01:31 -0500 From: Bernie Monette X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ietf-weird@imc.org Subject: re: Meeting in Adelaide... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-weird@imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Although I cannot make it I do have an agenda item. I am curious about the response to the WEIRD page I put up. Feedback etc. Go to http://www.iaai.ca/weird to check it out. Bernie Bernie Monette InterActive Arts Internet Presence Management http://www.iaai.ca mailto:monette@iaai.ca (416) 469-4337 From owner-ietf-weird Thu Feb 3 13:51:52 2000 Received: by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA07034 for ietf-weird-bks; Thu, 3 Feb 2000 13:51:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from motgate2.mot.com (motgate2.mot.com [136.182.1.10]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA07030 for ; Thu, 3 Feb 2000 13:51:51 -0800 (PST) Received: [from pobox2.mot.com (pobox2.mot.com [136.182.15.8]) by motgate2.mot.com (VWALL-IN-motgate2 2.0) with ESMTP id OAA26645 for ; Thu, 3 Feb 2000 14:54:18 -0700 (MST)] Received: [from s-il06al.corp.mot.com (s-il06al.corp.mot.com [199.2.152.60]) by pobox2.mot.com (MOT-pobox2 2.0) with ESMTP id OAA29275 for ; Thu, 3 Feb 2000 14:54:17 -0700 (MST)] Received: by s-il06al.corp.mot.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Thu, 3 Feb 2000 15:54:13 -0600 Message-ID: From: Burke Chris-CCB007 To: "'ietf-weird@imc.org'" Subject: Adelaide Meeting Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 15:54:12 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ietf-weird@imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Nobody has expressed a preference for when we meet at Adelaide, so I am going to file a request this week as follows: - Single 2 hour slot - Avoid: application area meeting, the other user services working groups, and selected application working group meetings Please write me at Chris.Burke@motorola.com if you want any other parameters on the scheduling request. Chris Burke WIERD Chair From owner-ietf-weird Sat Feb 5 17:45:51 2000 Received: by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA11472 for ietf-weird-bks; Sat, 5 Feb 2000 17:45:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from comnet.ca (comnet.ca [207.107.47.2]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA11468 for ; Sat, 5 Feb 2000 17:45:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from iaai.ca (dynamic-615.comnet.ca [206.186.72.171]) by comnet.ca (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA10585; Sat, 5 Feb 2000 20:47:40 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <389CD1A6.D30AFDE8@iaai.ca> Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 20:43:02 -0500 From: Bernie Monette X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Darrin , "ietf-weird@imc.org" CC: chris.burke@motorola.com, april_marine@iengines.com Subject: Re: WEIRD template References: <001001bf6f2f$3da91360$eb23fea9@skyler> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-weird@imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Greetings! I was responding to a general request by Chris-I was unaware that any work had been done on the templates. In any event what is to be done with the templates? Information? I can't make the meetings but I would like to participate. Bernie Bernie Monette InterActive Arts Internet Presence Management http://www.iaai.ca mailto:monette@iaai.ca (416) 469-4337 Darrin wrote: > > Hi Bernie, > > As far as I know, the template was decided at last years meeting in Oslo. > Here is a snippet from an email to the list from Chris on 9.22.99: > > > To kick-start WEIRD again for the Washington, DC meeting, here are two > > topics for list discussion: > > 1) Follow up on the action items from Oslo. > > 2) A suggestion for new progress the group can make. > > > > Action Items from Oslo: > > > > - We agreed to assemble a core web design team of about 5 people. Status: > I > > have not seen a roster, other than the Oslo result that April Marine and > Bob > > Quinn would participate, and someone would solicit help from Darin Jones > > (who made the prototype at http://www.ravenrock.net/usv/weird.html). Any > > update from the list subscribers? > > I haven't heard anything to the contrary. April? Chris? > > Sincerely, > > Darrin Jones From owner-ietf-weird Tue Feb 8 14:01:24 2000 Received: by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA21596 for ietf-weird-bks; Tue, 8 Feb 2000 14:01:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from motgate2.mot.com (motgate2.mot.com [136.182.1.10]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA21592 for ; Tue, 8 Feb 2000 14:01:23 -0800 (PST) Received: [from pobox2.mot.com (pobox2.mot.com [136.182.15.8]) by motgate2.mot.com (VWALL-IN-motgate2 2.0) with ESMTP id PAA02696 for ; Tue, 8 Feb 2000 15:04:15 -0700 (MST)] Received: [from s-il06am.corp.mot.com (s-il06am.corp.mot.com [199.5.78.61]) by pobox2.mot.com (MOT-pobox2 2.0) with ESMTP id PAA18249 for ; Tue, 8 Feb 2000 15:04:14 -0700 (MST)] Received: by s-il06am.corp.mot.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Tue, 8 Feb 2000 16:04:14 -0600 Message-ID: From: Burke Chris-CCB007 To: "'ietf-weird@imc.org'" Subject: Last call for WEIRD drafts for Adelaide! Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 16:04:12 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ietf-weird@imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: The WEIRD group hasn't authored any drafts so far, since we're developing web content. If, for some reason, you'd like to write an internet draft for WEIRD, please take note of Steve Coya's reminder that the drafts must be submitted by March 10. The official March 10 deadline does not apply to the "hot topics" write-ups some of you are working on for WEIRD. Still, as a courtesy to others who might want to read the current work on "hot topics" before Adelaide, please try to get your "hot topics" write-ups in by March 15. I have received an early write-up on multicast from Kathy Bosovich, and I am working on a draft on wireless internet, but have not seen any other drafts. Thanks for all your work! I hope to see some of you in Adelaide. Regards, Chris Burke > -----Original Message----- > From: Steve Coya [SMTP:scoya@ietf.org] > Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2000 1:11 PM > To: wgchairs@ietf.org > Subject: Getting close to "that" time > > > Greetings, > > The cut-off date for Internet-Drafts prior to the IETF meeting in Adelaide > is March 10. We'll be sending out a notice later this week. > > We (that is, Natalia) processed over 300 I-D submissions the week > following the DC meeting I-D cutoff. One of the problems encountered was > keeping documents in a special holding queue. There were, of course, the > many -00 submissions of draft-ietf-acronym- filename types. > > It was suggested that we require all -00 submissions be sent directly to > the WG chairs (fear not, I explained the reality of things :-). > > Believe me, it IS a hassle trying to process all the I-D submissions and > keep track of all those we must hold while waiting for a WG chair to say > ok (or no way). > > As such, I'm asking chairs to do their best to quickly respond when > queried about -00 submissions. I would also ask that if the chairs are > copied on the original submission, there is no need to wait for Natalia's > query before responding :-) > > If ANYONE has a suggestion on how to we might be able to efficiently > handle initial submissions, please feel free to let me know. > > BTW, moving the deadline back YAW is not a good suggestion, albeit > tempting :-) > > Thanks. > > > Steve > > > > From owner-ietf-weird Wed Feb 9 14:41:45 2000 Received: by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA06101 for ietf-weird-bks; Wed, 9 Feb 2000 14:41:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from c008.sfo.cp.net (c008-h009.c008.sfo.cp.net [209.228.14.198]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA06097 for ; Wed, 9 Feb 2000 14:41:44 -0800 (PST) Received: (cpmta 13496 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2000 14:44:11 -0800 Date: 9 Feb 2000 14:44:11 -0800 Message-ID: <20000209224411.13494.cpmta@c008.sfo.cp.net> X-Sent: 9 Feb 2000 22:44:11 GMT Received: from [216.185.31.62] by mail.giantsfan.com with HTTP; 09 Feb 2000 14:44:11 PST Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Mime-Version: 1.0 To: ietf-weird@imc.org From: 614275 GIANTS <614275@giantsfan.com> Cc: Chris.Burke@motorola.com X-Mailer: Web Mail 3.5.0.3 Subject: Copyright Notice "Wireless Giants Design"... (614275) Sender: owner-ietf-weird@imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: ------- Start of forwarded message ------- Dear Chris and other 'WEIRD' 1's.... Here is a quick look at something I was hoping Motorola might be able to use effectively as an inroads advertising gimmick in Baseball Broadcast, should they be involved in that in the near future-(Aren't they the ones doing a 'Net similcast of the ARIZONA DIAMONDBACKS, the GIANTS minor league team, from the old AIR FORCE 'DARPA' equiprment out of MARCH or BEALE AIR FORCE BASE? If you know more about that please get back with me before the beginning of GIANTS' SPRING TRAINING which begins in PHOENIX, I guess around MARCH 4th? Meanwhile- I recieved no other notice concerning the WEIRD meeting in Adelaide, can I get more details? Is it still on? Thank you, Casey Subject: Copyright Notice "Wireless Giants Design"... (614275) Return-Path: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Length: 698 Mime-Version: 1.0 To: 614275@giantsfan.com X-Received: 9 Feb 2000 20:29:10 GMT Delivered-To: giantsfan.com%614275@giantsfan.com From: Casey Farrell Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 11:46:49 -0800 (PST) Cc: oh_yeah_dot_net@yahoo.com Message-Id: <20000209194649.2626.qmail@web1806.mail.yahoo.com> Received: (cpmta 21824 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2000 12:29:10 -0800 from web1806.mail.yahoo.com (128.11.23.49) by smtp.c008.sfo.cp.net with SMTP; 9 Feb 2000 12:29:10 -0800 (qmail 2627 invoked by uid 60001); 9 Feb 2000 19:46:49 -0000 from [216.185.31.158] by web1806.mail.yahoo.com; Wed, 09 Feb 2000 11:46:49 PST Casey Farrell; Designer Wednesday San Francisco, California February 9, 2000 RE:Copyright Notice "Wireless Giants Design"...(614275) Please see: http://www.slip.net/~o614275 This designwork concept is explained at some length at these several URLs..... http://www.sfgate.com/vent/giants/messages/7785.shtml http://www.sfgate.com/vent/giants/messages/471.shtml The design is "FOR SALE" -asking price $1,500,000. 614275 Copyright 2000 Casey Farrell ===== Casey Farrell; Information Designer San Francisco oieau@yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------- End of forwarded message ------- __________________________________________________________ The Going Away Party! Giants Baseball 1999 Giants Fan Email - Official Email of the San Francisco Giants Get your free Giants Fan Email account http://www.sfgiants.com From owner-ietf-weird Wed Feb 9 14:47:03 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA06183 for ietf-weird-bks; Wed, 9 Feb 2000 14:47:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from ib.rc.vix.com (ib.rc.vix.com [204.152.187.22]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA06179 for ; Wed, 9 Feb 2000 14:47:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from bb.rc.vix.com (bb.rc.vix.com [204.152.187.11]) by ib.rc.vix.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) via ESMTP id OAA13241; Wed, 9 Feb 2000 14:49:41 -0800 (PST) env-from (April.Marine@nominum.com) Received: from localhost (amarine@localhost) by bb.rc.vix.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) via ESMTP id OAA27360; Wed, 9 Feb 2000 14:49:41 -0800 (PST) env-from (April.Marine@nominum.com) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 14:49:41 -0800 (PST) From: April Marine To: 614275 GIANTS <614275@giantsfan.com> cc: ietf-weird@imc.org, Chris.Burke@motorola.com Subject: Re: Copyright Notice "Wireless Giants Design"... (614275) In-Reply-To: <20000209224411.13494.cpmta@c008.sfo.cp.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ietf-weird@imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Casey, there is no bigger Giants fan than I (being a native San Franciscan); however, I must tell you that everything included in this msg except the question about Adelaide is considered spam. Please don't use this list for such off-topic posts, especially commercial ones. WEIRD will be meeting in Adelaide. April On 9 Feb 2000, 614275 GIANTS wrote: > ------- Start of forwarded message ------- > Dear Chris and other 'WEIRD' 1's.... > > Here is a quick look at something I was hoping Motorola might be able to use > effectively as an inroads advertising gimmick in Baseball Broadcast, should they > be involved in that in the near future-(Aren't they the ones doing a 'Net similcast of the ARIZONA DIAMONDBACKS, the GIANTS minor league team, from the > old AIR FORCE 'DARPA' equiprment out of MARCH or BEALE AIR FORCE BASE? If you know more about that please get back with me before the beginning of GIANTS' SPRING TRAINING which begins in PHOENIX, I guess around MARCH 4th? Meanwhile- > I recieved no other notice concerning the WEIRD meeting in Adelaide, can I get more details? Is it still on? Thank you, > Casey > > Subject: Copyright Notice > "Wireless Giants Design"... > (614275) > Return-Path: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Content-Length: 698 > Mime-Version: 1.0 > To: 614275@giantsfan.com > X-Received: 9 Feb 2000 20:29:10 GMT > Delivered-To: giantsfan.com%614275@giantsfan.com > From: Casey Farrell > Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 11:46:49 -0800 (PST) > Cc: oh_yeah_dot_net@yahoo.com > Message-Id: <20000209194649.2626.qmail@web1806.mail.yahoo.com> > Received: (cpmta 21824 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2000 12:29:10 -0800 > from web1806.mail.yahoo.com (128.11.23.49) > by smtp.c008.sfo.cp.net with SMTP; 9 Feb 2000 12:29:10 -0800 > (qmail 2627 invoked by uid 60001); 9 Feb 2000 19:46:49 -0000 > from [216.185.31.158] by web1806.mail.yahoo.com; Wed, 09 Feb 2000 11:46:49 PST > > Casey Farrell; Designer Wednesday > San Francisco, California February 9, 2000 > > RE:Copyright Notice "Wireless Giants > Design"...(614275) > > Please see: http://www.slip.net/~o614275 > > This designwork concept is explained at some length > at > these several URLs..... > > http://www.sfgate.com/vent/giants/messages/7785.shtml > > http://www.sfgate.com/vent/giants/messages/471.shtml > > The design is "FOR SALE" -asking price $1,500,000. > > 614275 Copyright 2000 Casey Farrell > > ===== > > Casey Farrell; > Information Designer > San Francisco > > oieau@yahoo.com > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. > http://im.yahoo.com > > ------- End of forwarded message ------- > > > __________________________________________________________ > The Going Away Party! Giants Baseball 1999 > Giants Fan Email - Official Email of the San Francisco Giants > Get your free Giants Fan Email account http://www.sfgiants.com > > From owner-ietf-weird Thu Feb 10 01:16:42 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA23766 for ietf-weird-bks; Thu, 10 Feb 2000 01:16:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.pipemedia.net (IDENT:root@smtp.pipemedia.net [194.207.89.6]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA23761 for ; Thu, 10 Feb 2000 01:16:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from techserv (perle-modem3.pipemedia.net [194.207.89.131] (may be forged)) by smtp.pipemedia.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA11769; Thu, 10 Feb 2000 09:18:52 GMT Received: from 172.27.1.1 by techserv ([172.27.1.1] running VPOP3) with SMTP; Thu, 10 Feb 2000 09:21:16 -0000 Received: by TECHSERV with Microsoft Mail id <01BF73A8.2E82D790@TECHSERV>; Thu, 10 Feb 2000 09:21:16 -0000 Message-ID: <01BF73A8.2E82D790@TECHSERV> From: Philip To: "'April Marine'" , 614275 GIANTS <614275@giantsfan.com> Cc: "ietf-weird@imc.org" , "Chris.Burke@motorola.com" Subject: RE: Copyright Notice "Wireless Giants Design"... (614275) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 09:21:13 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Server: VPOP3 V1.3.1 - Registered to: CKL!1997 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ns.secondary.com id BAA23762 Sender: owner-ietf-weird@imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: I am sorry to have to inform you, but sadly Chris past away on boxing day and is no longer with us. -----Original Message----- From: April Marine [SMTP:April.Marine@nominum.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2000 10:50 PM To: 614275 GIANTS Cc: ietf-weird@imc.org; Chris.Burke@motorola.com Subject: Re: Copyright Notice "Wireless Giants Design"... (614275) Casey, there is no bigger Giants fan than I (being a native San Franciscan); however, I must tell you that everything included in this msg except the question about Adelaide is considered spam. Please don't use this list for such off-topic posts, especially commercial ones. WEIRD will be meeting in Adelaide. April On 9 Feb 2000, 614275 GIANTS wrote: > ------- Start of forwarded message ------- > Dear Chris and other 'WEIRD' 1's.... > > Here is a quick look at something I was hoping Motorola might be able to use > effectively as an inroads advertising gimmick in Baseball Broadcast, should they > be involved in that in the near future-(Aren't they the ones doing a 'Net similcast of the ARIZONA DIAMONDBACKS, the GIANTS minor league team, from the > old AIR FORCE 'DARPA' equiprment out of MARCH or BEALE AIR FORCE BASE? If you know more about that please get back with me before the beginning of GIANTS' SPRING TRAINING which begins in PHOENIX, I guess around MARCH 4th? Meanwhile- > I recieved no other notice concerning the WEIRD meeting in Adelaide, can I get more details? Is it still on? Thank you, > Casey > > Subject: Copyright Notice > "Wireless Giants Design"... > (614275) > Return-Path: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Content-Length: 698 > Mime-Version: 1.0 > To: 614275@giantsfan.com > X-Received: 9 Feb 2000 20:29:10 GMT > Delivered-To: giantsfan.com%614275@giantsfan.com > From: Casey Farrell > Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 11:46:49 -0800 (PST) > Cc: oh_yeah_dot_net@yahoo.com > Message-Id: <20000209194649.2626.qmail@web1806.mail.yahoo.com> > Received: (cpmta 21824 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2000 12:29:10 -0800 > from web1806.mail.yahoo.com (128.11.23.49) > by smtp.c008.sfo.cp.net with SMTP; 9 Feb 2000 12:29:10 -0800 > (qmail 2627 invoked by uid 60001); 9 Feb 2000 19:46:49 -0000 > from [216.185.31.158] by web1806.mail.yahoo.com; Wed, 09 Feb 2000 11:46:49 PST > > Casey Farrell; Designer Wednesday > San Francisco, California February 9, 2000 > > RE:Copyright Notice "Wireless Giants > Design"...(614275) > > Please see: http://www.slip.net/~o614275 > > This designwork concept is explained at some length > at > these several URLs..... > > http://www.sfgate.com/vent/giants/messages/7785.shtml > > http://www.sfgate.com/vent/giants/messages/471.shtml > > The design is "FOR SALE" -asking price $1,500,000. > > 614275 Copyright 2000 Casey Farrell > > ===== > > Casey Farrell; > Information Designer > San Francisco > > oieau@yahoo.com > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. > http://im.yahoo.com > > ------- End of forwarded message ------- > > > __________________________________________________________ > The Going Away Party! Giants Baseball 1999 > Giants Fan Email - Official Email of the San Francisco Giants > Get your free Giants Fan Email account http://www.sfgiants.com > > From owner-ietf-weird Thu Feb 10 10:55:23 2000 Received: by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA07435 for ietf-weird-bks; Thu, 10 Feb 2000 10:55:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from ftpbox.mot.com (ftpbox.mot.com [129.188.136.101]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA07429 for ; Thu, 10 Feb 2000 10:55:16 -0800 (PST) Received: [from pobox2.mot.com (pobox2.mot.com [136.182.15.8]) by ftpbox.mot.com (VWALL-IN-ftpbox 2.0) with ESMTP id LAA14236 for ; Thu, 10 Feb 2000 11:58:16 -0700 (MST)] Received: [from s-il06am.corp.mot.com (s-il06am.corp.mot.com [199.5.78.61]) by pobox2.mot.com (MOT-pobox2 2.0) with ESMTP id LAA08729 for ; Thu, 10 Feb 2000 11:58:16 -0700 (MST)] Received: by s-il06am.corp.mot.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Thu, 10 Feb 2000 12:58:16 -0600 Message-ID: From: Burke Chris-CCB007 To: "'Philip'" , "'April Marine'" , 614275 GIANTS <614275@giantsfan.com> Cc: ietf-weird@imc.org Subject: RE: Copyright Notice "Wireless Giants Design"... (614275) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 12:58:03 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ietf-weird@imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: What Chris are you talking about? And why are you disrupting this forum? Chris Burke Motorola > -----Original Message----- > From: Philip [SMTP:phil@foxform.co.uk] > Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2000 1:21 AM > To: 'April Marine'; 614275 GIANTS > Cc: ietf-weird@imc.org; Chris.Burke@motorola.com > Subject: RE: Copyright Notice "Wireless Giants Design"... (614275) > > I am sorry to have to inform you, but sadly Chris past away on boxing day > and is no longer with us. > From owner-ietf-weird Tue Feb 15 11:19:54 2000 Received: by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA00611 for ietf-weird-bks; Tue, 15 Feb 2000 11:19:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from ftpbox.mot.com (ftpbox.mot.com [129.188.136.101]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA00607 for ; Tue, 15 Feb 2000 11:19:52 -0800 (PST) Received: [from pobox.mot.com (pobox.mot.com [129.188.137.100]) by ftpbox.mot.com (VWALL-IN-ftpbox 2.0) with ESMTP id MAA21691 for ; Tue, 15 Feb 2000 12:23:17 -0700 (MST)] Received: [from s-il06al.corp.mot.com (s-il06al.corp.mot.com [199.2.152.60]) by pobox.mot.com (MOT-pobox 2.0) with ESMTP id MAA01367 for ; Tue, 15 Feb 2000 12:23:17 -0700 (MST)] Received: by s-il06al.corp.mot.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <1Q2DKLBK>; Tue, 15 Feb 2000 13:23:17 -0600 Message-ID: From: Burke Chris-CCB007 To: "'ietf-weird@imc.org'" Subject: Is Denial of Service a WEIRD Hot Topic? Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 13:23:07 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ietf-weird@imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Any thoughts on whether this type of information is worth highlighting on the web site? Chris > -----Original Message----- > From: The IESG [SMTP:iesg-secretary@ietf.org] > Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2000 6:24 AM > Cc: RFC Editor; Internet Architecture Board > Subject: Protocol Action: Network Ingress Filtering: Defeating Denial > of Service Attacks which employ IP Source Address Spoofing to BCP > > > > The IESG has approved 'Network Ingress Filtering: Defeating Denial of > Service Attacks which employ IP Source Address Spoofing' as a > Best Current Practice. > > The IESG Contact Persons are Randy Bush and Bert Wijnen. > > > Technical Summary > > This document describes recommended router configurations to reduce > likelihood of attacks over the network. It describes how an ISP customer > aggregation router should be configured to prevent a customer from > sending > packets with source addresses from space other than their own. > > Working Group Summary > > This is not the product of a working group, but has been used in > practice, > has passed general IETF last call twice, and is generally considered to > be > good practice. > > Protocol Quality > > This was reviewed for the IESG by Randy Bush. From owner-ietf-weird Wed Feb 16 03:56:21 2000 Received: by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA01357 for ietf-weird-bks; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 03:56:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from ops2.nic.mil (ops2.nic.mil [192.112.38.5]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA01353 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 03:56:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (plzak@localhost) by ops2.nic.mil (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id GAA18953; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 06:58:56 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 06:58:56 -0500 (EST) From: Ray Plzak To: Burke Chris-CCB007 cc: "'ietf-weird@imc.org'" Subject: Re: Is Denial of Service a WEIRD Hot Topic? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ietf-weird@imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: While this is certainly the topic d'jour, there are two ways to look at how it can be addressed. First, are putting up a tutorial type of service? If so then maybe what we do is point to the resources that are already there such as the site that Paul Ferguson and Dan Senie have at URL http://www.denialinfo.com/. We don't want to reinvent the wheel. Second, we can highlight IETF activity in this area, of which the message below is a example of one part of the solution to the problem. This has some value in its timeliness, but does not point out all of the discussions about this problem. There are other RFCs and IDs that address aspects of this as well. They should be highlighted as well. A keyword search capability that would find these documents would certainly be helpful here. The effort here is obviously an upfront one to decide how to set up the mechanism - perhaps a web crawler type tool that looks at certain types of info at selected sites - RFCs, IDs, IETF mail list archives, etc. Food for thought. Ray On Tue, 15 Feb 2000, Burke Chris-CCB007 wrote: > Any thoughts on whether this type of information is worth highlighting on > the web site? Chris > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: The IESG [SMTP:iesg-secretary@ietf.org] > > Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2000 6:24 AM > > Cc: RFC Editor; Internet Architecture Board > > Subject: Protocol Action: Network Ingress Filtering: Defeating Denial > > of Service Attacks which employ IP Source Address Spoofing to BCP > > > > > > > > The IESG has approved 'Network Ingress Filtering: Defeating Denial of > > Service Attacks which employ IP Source Address Spoofing' as a > > Best Current Practice. > > > > The IESG Contact Persons are Randy Bush and Bert Wijnen. > > > > > > Technical Summary > > > > This document describes recommended router configurations to reduce > > likelihood of attacks over the network. It describes how an ISP customer > > aggregation router should be configured to prevent a customer from > > sending > > packets with source addresses from space other than their own. > > > > Working Group Summary > > > > This is not the product of a working group, but has been used in > > practice, > > has passed general IETF last call twice, and is generally considered to > > be > > good practice. > > > > Protocol Quality > > > > This was reviewed for the IESG by Randy Bush. > From owner-ietf-weird Fri Feb 18 16:37:42 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA09341 for ietf-weird-bks; Fri, 18 Feb 2000 16:37:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from c008.sfo.cp.net (c008-h008.c008.sfo.cp.net [209.228.14.197]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA09337 for ; Fri, 18 Feb 2000 16:37:41 -0800 (PST) Received: (cpmta 28819 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2000 16:40:54 -0800 Date: 18 Feb 2000 16:40:54 -0800 Message-ID: <20000219004054.28816.cpmta@c008.sfo.cp.net> X-Sent: 19 Feb 2000 00:40:54 GMT Received: from [216.185.31.25] by mail.giantsfan.com with HTTP; 18 Feb 2000 16:40:54 PST Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Mime-Version: 1.0 To: plzak@ops2.nic.mil From: 614275 GIANTS <614275@giantsfan.com> Cc: Chris.Burke@motorola.com, ietf-weird@imc.org X-Mailer: Web Mail 3.5.0.3 Subject: Re: Is Denial of Service a WEIRD Hot Topic? Or What! Sender: owner-ietf-weird@imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: I'm sure a lot of designers out there are not familiar with some of the strange ideosynchracies (please correct the spelling?) of the REAL BUSINESS WORLD out there-BUT, BELIEVE IT OR NOT...in SAN FRANCISCO...at the CITY CLERKS's OFFICE which is where you register your DBA...."No NAME is ever turned away..." That is KORRECT! "We can not for reasons heretofor told because it would be big sleaze-ball 'mustachio-Pete' expose...tell you ''why' ANYONE can regoister the NAME of YOUR BUSINESS...on top of it already being registered! If you KNOEW NOTHING of LAW...common sence would tell you...it is wrong, little voice would be saying these are big time Communist Nut Crooks! And such is the situation! The same 'morons' at the LIBRARY of CONGRESS and "INTERNIC" say that they do not know that it is ILLEGAL to register a 'DOT.COM' in the name of FORD MOTOR COMPANY, KELLOGGS, JOHN FITZGERALD KENNEDY, etc. Now in theis CITY it is BOTH 'legal' and EXPECTED of you to "VOTE EARLY AND OFTEN"..which once was a joke...is NOW A REALITY, just change your hat, go back in and use your 'other' 594 'names!' The freaks who run the City of FRISCO, no longer 'depend' STRICTLY on the "DECEASED" to swing votes...they done everything but move the PEOPLE's REPUBLIC of CHINA here enMasse, to 'vote'...and among the laws this City has, it is 'illegal' to check ID of suspicious people. It is 'illegal' to ask for ID of 'voters'...and so forth. If you think this is odd, MAYOR WILLIE BROWN is described in the Angela Alioto book as being the most highly rewarded person in the history of the tobacco industry, as a PRO-SMOKE lobbyist...the thing is in 'FRISCO" he was awarded the "AMERICA's GREATEST HUMANITARIAN award, by the SAN FRANCISCO CHAPTER of the AMERICAN CANCER SOCIETY! So, now you see how that not only are 'dot.coms' Trademarks, Copyrights, etc. all being diluted by NUTS who never invented anything, never wrote a SONG, didn't do diddly,, and THESE are the REAL 'HOGS"...if you really want it to all be FREE...give "YOURS" 1st! (And P.S) Just like the JAPANESE, Bill GATES and STEVE CASE, and LARRY ELLISON contrary to the 'little guys' understanding of everything...did NOT 'invent' ANYTHING...just like STEVE JOBS, GEORGE LUCAS, and Adam Osbourne, and many many others...these guys are just the 'Bull Shit Artists" for their category... "APPLE"...INVENTED BY STEVE.....WOZNIAK! "STAR WARS"...written by CLARK ASHTON SMITH...in 1918!....(Please see Literary World of SAN FRANCISCO) ...and REVEREND MOON was the MARKETEER! Adam Osbourne....talked a staff of 300 women into working for him for FREE for 3-years while he was a BANKRUPT! (Hey, it's a PLUS when you got an ENGLISH ACCENT...so ROMANTIC...but more importantly...in case it all hits the fan...a "BRITISH PASSPORT..in order to flee? fly? flue?... the country!") Steve Case...social workers get the Fed gov. to supply 'dummies' deaf retarded, crippled, and seniors with 'PUTERS...so they have some companionship interest besides...FIDO! Well...'A MIRACLE Un-LINE" worked this way, you sign 'em up like AMWAY, and preach to 'um like it was TUPPERWARE...thing is they would give you a disc for 50 FREE HOURS....right? After that you had to pay a 'phone bill'...so YOUR disc's "DIAL-UP" is in BOSTON...and you live in FRISCO...the guy who lives in NEW YORK...his "DIAL-UP" is LOS ANGELES! The disc 'allowed' your 'PUTER to come on with a slow fuzzy warm glow, which took anywhere from 39-minutes when it was 'hot' to about 3 and a half hours when it was 'not!' The service of course improved just like a CHAIN LETTER...(Not a CHAIN DISCOUNT!)...over time as more 'just plain folks' (Grandma & HELEN KELLER) used it increasingly longer as they tried to figure out what makes it work-and how come their phone was shut off and credit cards cut in half! A perfectly planned PONZI SCHEME for the INTERNET AGE! The several BILLION that these PIGS racked up insured that the 'PHONE co." everywhere would ALWAYS be in 'your pocket'( please see JAMES COBURN in "OUR MAN FLINT" ) Well, enough of that-as most of you have no idea how America was orignally set up as a 'play fair' kind of a place, (we are not talking 'greed' here...these are WAY ILLEGAL PRACTICES...and furthermore, just a few years back may have even come under the investigation of our government as "POSSIBLE MONOPOLISTIC ACTS OF TREASON?"!) What I see for the FUTURE? Weel, first of all they have to 'catch' MICROSOFT for the 'hacker attack!' It was an obvious, the 'attack' was mostly in the Hotmail boxes, and they just wanted to 'close the files' on a couple of thousand 'dreamers' out there who had been putting some cool stuff in their letters...so were put under scrutiny and observation....ILLEGALLY! And that is called....INDUSTRIAL SABOTAGE! ..."No Shit SHERLOCK!" But, when the whole deal quiets down, I am anticipating a major 'crackdown' on 'email' and 'talk' on the 'Net, and more and more 'features' which cost you alot-and you cannot refuse, if you want to stay running! Each 'feature' will be a 'tap'...and the 'feed' will probably go from these GIGANTIC corporations, who will give your personal info to the ever increasing prison population which has been 'GROWN" in order to do "business' at a PROFIT, that is so that the "OLD FORMULA"... "keep 'um barefoot and pregnant!" can be brought forward to keep the MIDDLE CLASS from getting too BIG! A way to have a 'sweatshop' 'Net! Who am I quoting? GEORGE ORWELL! His "1984!" said it all! It has not only ALL COME TRUE...but we are being forced to a reality which needn't be! The 'Net is an ACCIDENTAL BREATH of FRESH AIR for MANKIND! We must keep it FREE and CLEAN! But that means we must do what you would do if you were talking of corn and potaoes out in the country! Nothing but that! Comments? Questions? On Wed, 16 February 2000, Ray Plzak wrote: > In-Reply-To: > Sender: owner-ietf-weird@imc.org > To: Burke Chris-CCB007 > Delivered-To: giantsfan.com%614275@giantsfan.com > Cc: "'ietf-weird@imc.org'" > Received: (cpmta 26714 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2000 04:06:32 -0800 > from ns.secondary.com (208.184.76.39) > by smtp.c008.sfo.cp.net with SMTP; 16 Feb 2000 04:06:32 -0800 > by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA01357 > for ietf-weird-bks; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 03:56:21 -0800 (PST) > from ops2.nic.mil (ops2.nic.mil [192.112.38.5]) > by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA01353 > for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 03:56:14 -0800 (PST) > from localhost (plzak@localhost) > by ops2.nic.mil (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id GAA18953; > Wed, 16 Feb 2000 06:58:56 -0500 (EST) > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > Content-Length: 2414 > List-Archive: > X-Received: 16 Feb 2000 12:06:32 GMT > Precedence: bulk > List-Unsubscribe: > Subject: Re: Is Denial of Service a WEIRD Hot Topic? > From: Ray Plzak > List-Id: > Return-Path: > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 06:58:56 -0500 (EST) > Message-Id: > > While this is certainly the topic d'jour, there are two ways to look at > how it can be addressed. First, are putting up a tutorial type of > service? If so then maybe what we do is point to the resources that are > already there such as the site that Paul Ferguson and Dan Senie have at > URL http://www.denialinfo.com/. We don't want to reinvent the wheel. > Second, we can highlight IETF activity in this area, of which the message > below is a example of one part of the solution to the problem. This has > some value in its timeliness, but does not point out all of the > discussions about this problem. There are other RFCs and IDs that address > aspects of this as well. They should be highlighted as well. A keyword > search capability that would find these documents would certainly be > helpful here. The effort here is obviously an upfront one to decide how > to set up the mechanism - perhaps a web crawler type tool that looks at > certain types of info at selected sites - RFCs, IDs, IETF mail list > archives, etc. Food for thought. > > Ray > > > On Tue, 15 Feb 2000, Burke Chris-CCB007 wrote: > > > Any thoughts on whether this type of information is worth highlighting on > > the web site? Chris > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From:The IESG [SMTP:iesg-secretary@ietf.org] > > > Sent:Tuesday, February 15, 2000 6:24 AM > > > Cc:RFC Editor; Internet Architecture Board > > > Subject:Protocol Action: Network Ingress Filtering: Defeating Denial > > > of Service Attacks which employ IP Source Address Spoofing to BCP > > > > > > > > > > > > The IESG has approved 'Network Ingress Filtering: Defeating Denial of > > > Service Attacks which employ IP Source Address Spoofing' as a > > > Best Current Practice. > > > > > > The IESG Contact Persons are Randy Bush and Bert Wijnen. > > > > > > > > > Technical Summary > > > > > > This document describes recommended router configurations to reduce > > > likelihood of attacks over the network. It describes how an ISP customer > > > aggregation router should be configured to prevent a customer from > > > sending > > > packets with source addresses from space other than their own. > > > > > > Working Group Summary > > > > > > This is not the product of a working group, but has been used in > > > practice, > > > has passed general IETF last call twice, and is generally considered to > > > be > > > good practice. > > > > > > Protocol Quality > > > > > > This was reviewed for the IESG by Randy Bush. > > __________________________________________________________ The Going Away Party! Giants Baseball 1999 Giants Fan Email - Official Email of the San Francisco Giants Get your free Giants Fan Email account http://www.sfgiants.com From owner-ietf-weird Tue Feb 22 05:14:07 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA09013 for ietf-weird-bks; Tue, 22 Feb 2000 05:14:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from ops2.nic.mil (ops2.nic.mil [192.112.38.5]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA09001 for ; Tue, 22 Feb 2000 05:13:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (plzak@localhost) by ops2.nic.mil (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA12427; Tue, 22 Feb 2000 08:14:54 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 08:14:53 -0500 (EST) From: Ray Plzak To: 614275 GIANTS <614275@giantsfan.com> cc: Chris.Burke@motorola.com, ietf-weird@imc.org Subject: Re: Is Denial of Service a WEIRD Hot Topic? Or What! In-Reply-To: <20000219004054.28816.cpmta@c008.sfo.cp.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ietf-weird@imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: I should mention one of the available tools is moderated lists. Ray On 18 Feb 2000, 614275 GIANTS wrote: > I'm sure a lot of designers out there are not familiar with some of the strange > ideosynchracies (please correct the spelling?) of the REAL BUSINESS WORLD out there-BUT, BELIEVE IT OR NOT...in SAN FRANCISCO...at the CITY CLERKS's OFFICE > which is where you register your DBA...."No NAME is ever turned away..." That is KORRECT! "We can not for reasons heretofor told because it would be big sleaze-ball 'mustachio-Pete' expose...tell you ''why' ANYONE can regoister the NAME of YOUR BUSINESS...on top of it already being registered! If you KNOEW NOTHING of LAW...common sence would tell you...it is wrong, little voice would > be saying these are big time Communist Nut Crooks! And such is the situation! > The same 'morons' at the LIBRARY of CONGRESS and "INTERNIC" say that they do not know that it is ILLEGAL to register a 'DOT.COM' in the name of FORD MOTOR COMPANY, KELLOGGS, JOHN FITZGERALD KENNEDY, etc. Now in theis CITY it is BOTH 'legal' and EXPECTED of you to "VOTE EARLY AND OFTEN"..which once was a joke...is NOW A REALITY, just change your hat, go back in and use your 'other' 594 'names!' The freaks who run the City of FRISCO, no longer 'depend' STRICTLY > on the "DECEASED" to swing votes...they done everything but move the PEOPLE's REPUBLIC of CHINA here enMasse, to 'vote'...and among the laws this City has, > it is 'illegal' to check ID of suspicious people. It is 'illegal' to ask for ID > of 'voters'...and so forth. If you think this is odd, MAYOR WILLIE BROWN is > > > On Wed, 16 February 2000, Ray Plzak wrote: > > > In-Reply-To: > > Sender: owner-ietf-weird@imc.org > > To: Burke Chris-CCB007 > > Delivered-To: giantsfan.com%614275@giantsfan.com > > Cc: "'ietf-weird@imc.org'" > > Received: (cpmta 26714 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2000 04:06:32 -0800 > > from ns.secondary.com (208.184.76.39) > > by smtp.c008.sfo.cp.net with SMTP; 16 Feb 2000 04:06:32 -0800 > > by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA01357 > > for ietf-weird-bks; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 03:56:21 -0800 (PST) > > from ops2.nic.mil (ops2.nic.mil [192.112.38.5]) > > by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA01353 > > for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 03:56:14 -0800 (PST) > > from localhost (plzak@localhost) > > by ops2.nic.mil (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id GAA18953; > > Wed, 16 Feb 2000 06:58:56 -0500 (EST) > > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > > Content-Length: 2414 > > List-Archive: > > X-Received: 16 Feb 2000 12:06:32 GMT > > Precedence: bulk > > List-Unsubscribe: > > Subject: Re: Is Denial of Service a WEIRD Hot Topic? > > From: Ray Plzak > > List-Id: > > Return-Path: > > Mime-Version: 1.0 > > Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 06:58:56 -0500 (EST) > > Message-Id: > > > > While this is certainly the topic d'jour, there are two ways to look at > > how it can be addressed. First, are putting up a tutorial type of > > service? If so then maybe what we do is point to the resources that are > > already there such as the site that Paul Ferguson and Dan Senie have at > > URL http://www.denialinfo.com/. We don't want to reinvent the wheel. > > Second, we can highlight IETF activity in this area, of which the message > > below is a example of one part of the solution to the problem. This has > > some value in its timeliness, but does not point out all of the > > discussions about this problem. There are other RFCs and IDs that address > > aspects of this as well. They should be highlighted as well. A keyword > > search capability that would find these documents would certainly be > > helpful here. The effort here is obviously an upfront one to decide how > > to set up the mechanism - perhaps a web crawler type tool that looks at > > certain types of info at selected sites - RFCs, IDs, IETF mail list > > archives, etc. Food for thought. > > > > Ray > > > > > > On Tue, 15 Feb 2000, Burke Chris-CCB007 wrote: > > > > > Any thoughts on whether this type of information is worth highlighting on > > > the web site? Chris > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From:The IESG [SMTP:iesg-secretary@ietf.org] > > > > Sent:Tuesday, February 15, 2000 6:24 AM > > > > Cc:RFC Editor; Internet Architecture Board > > > > Subject:Protocol Action: Network Ingress Filtering: Defeating Denial > > > > of Service Attacks which employ IP Source Address Spoofing to BCP > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The IESG has approved 'Network Ingress Filtering: Defeating Denial of > > > > Service Attacks which employ IP Source Address Spoofing' as a > > > > Best Current Practice. > > > > > > > > The IESG Contact Persons are Randy Bush and Bert Wijnen. > > > > > > > > > > > > Technical Summary > > > > > > > > This document describes recommended router configurations to reduce > > > > likelihood of attacks over the network. It describes how an ISP customer > > > > aggregation router should be configured to prevent a customer from > > > > sending > > > > packets with source addresses from space other than their own. > > > > > > > > Working Group Summary > > > > > > > > This is not the product of a working group, but has been used in > > > > practice, > > > > has passed general IETF last call twice, and is generally considered to > > > > be > > > > good practice. > > > > > > > > Protocol Quality > > > > > > > > This was reviewed for the IESG by Randy Bush. > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > The Going Away Party! Giants Baseball 1999 > Giants Fan Email - Official Email of the San Francisco Giants > Get your free Giants Fan Email account http://www.sfgiants.com > > From owner-ietf-weird Tue Feb 22 07:04:50 2000 Received: by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA10638 for ietf-weird-bks; Tue, 22 Feb 2000 07:04:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from rgfsparc.cr.usgs.gov (rgfsparc.cr.usgs.gov [136.177.164.192]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA10634 for ; Tue, 22 Feb 2000 07:04:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from rgfsparc.cr.usgs.gov (rgfsparc.cr.usgs.gov [136.177.164.192]) by rgfsparc.cr.usgs.gov (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA04214 for ; Tue, 22 Feb 2000 09:08:35 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <200002221508.JAA04214@rgfsparc.cr.usgs.gov> Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 09:08:35 -0600 (CST) From: "Robert G. Ferrell" Reply-To: "Robert G. Ferrell" Subject: Re: Is Denial of Service a WEIRD Hot Topic? Or What! To: ietf-weird@imc.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-MD5: 2ev1CiN1UTKmbqzPXUr/hA== X-Mailer: dtmail 1.3.0 CDE Version 1.3 SunOS 5.7 sun4u sparc Sender: owner-ietf-weird@imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: > I'm sure a lot of designers out there are not familiar with some of the >strange ideosynchracies This disturbed individual haunts several WG lists that I monitor, as well as IETF-Announce. I think a little IP filtering might be in order here. RGF Robert G. Ferrell Information Security Officer National Business Center, US DoI Robert_G_Ferrell@nbc.gov ------------------------------------------------------------ Nothing I have ever said should be construed as even vaguely representing an official statement by the NBC or DoI. ------------------------------------------------------------ From owner-ietf-weird Tue Feb 22 08:03:22 2000 Received: by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA13078 for ietf-weird-bks; Tue, 22 Feb 2000 08:03:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from isrv3.isc.org (isrv3.isc.org [204.152.184.87]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA13072 for ; Tue, 22 Feb 2000 08:03:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from bb.rc.vix.com (bb.rc.vix.com [204.152.187.11]) by isrv3.isc.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) via ESMTP id IAA25381; Tue, 22 Feb 2000 08:07:07 -0800 (PST) env-from (April.Marine@nominum.com) Received: from localhost (amarine@localhost) by bb.rc.vix.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) via ESMTP id IAA05475; Tue, 22 Feb 2000 08:07:07 -0800 (PST) env-from (April.Marine@nominum.com) Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 08:07:07 -0800 (PST) From: April Marine To: Ray Plzak cc: Chris.Burke@motorola.com, WEIRD WG Subject: Re: Is Denial of Service a WEIRD Hot Topic? Or What! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ietf-weird@imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: On Tue, 22 Feb 2000, Ray Plzak wrote: > I should mention one of the available tools is moderated lists. > > Ray Good point. I'll ask Paul. A. From owner-ietf-weird Fri Mar 17 10:49:16 2000 Received: by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA19793 for ietf-weird-bks; Fri, 17 Mar 2000 10:49:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from motgate.mot.com (motgate.mot.com [129.188.136.100]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA19789 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2000 10:49:15 -0800 (PST) Received: [from mothost.mot.com (mothost.mot.com [129.188.137.101]) by motgate.mot.com (motgate 2.1) with ESMTP id LAA06676 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2000 11:50:42 -0700 (MST)] Received: [from s-il06ar.corp.mot.com (s-il06ar.corp.mot.com [199.2.152.27]) by mothost.mot.com (MOT-mothost 2.0) with ESMTP id LAA01430 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2000 11:50:42 -0700 (MST)] Received: by s-il06ar.corp.mot.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Fri, 17 Mar 2000 12:50:42 -0600 Message-ID: From: Burke Chris-CCB007 To: "'ietf-weird@imc.org'" Subject: WEIRD WG Agenda for Adelaide Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 12:50:38 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ietf-weird@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: > - Agenda Bashing > - Introductions > - Status update vs Charter > - Discussion of Bernie Monette web page prototype at > http://www.iaai.ca/weird > - Discussion of Kathy Bosovich draft paper on multicast activites in IETF > - Discussion of Chris Burke draft paper on wireless activities in IETF > - Actions for next 90 days > - Adjourn > Will send out the Bosovich and Burke "hot topics" papers in next 24 hours. Chris From owner-ietf-weird Tue Mar 21 14:58:30 2000 Received: by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA07266 for ietf-weird-bks; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 14:58:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from motgate.mot.com (motgate.mot.com [129.188.136.100]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA07262 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 14:58:29 -0800 (PST) Received: [from pobox.mot.com (pobox.mot.com [129.188.137.100]) by motgate.mot.com (motgate 2.1) with ESMTP id QAA18678 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 16:00:18 -0700 (MST)] Received: [from s-il06al.corp.mot.com (s-il06al.corp.mot.com [199.2.152.60]) by pobox.mot.com (MOT-pobox 2.0) with ESMTP id QAA11027 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 16:00:17 -0700 (MST)] Received: by s-il06al.corp.mot.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 17:00:16 -0600 Message-ID: From: Burke Chris-CCB007 To: "'ietf-weird@imc.org'" Subject: Anybody want to whip up a 'WEIRD Guide to the BOFs'? Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 17:00:15 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ietf-weird@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: I might do this myself, but would be happy to collaborate with others on the list. There are a lot of very interesting BOFs planned for Adelaide. I'd like to arrange them topically, using our list of 'hot topics' as a schema, and put a web page up on the prototype WEIRD site with a single paragraph description and the time of each BOF. I have a crazy vision of doing this BEFORE the conference opens on Sunday. Any takers? Chris Burke From owner-ietf-weird Tue Mar 21 15:22:08 2000 Received: by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA07587 for ietf-weird-bks; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 15:22:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from motgate2.mot.com (motgate2.mot.com [136.182.1.10]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA07583 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 15:22:07 -0800 (PST) Received: [from mothost.mot.com (mothost.mot.com [129.188.137.101]) by motgate2.mot.com (motgate2 2.1) with ESMTP id QAA04963 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 16:23:56 -0700 (MST)] Received: [from s-il06ar.corp.mot.com (s-il06ar.corp.mot.com [199.2.152.27]) by mothost.mot.com (MOT-mothost 2.0) with ESMTP id QAA22503 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 16:23:55 -0700 (MST)] Received: by s-il06ar.corp.mot.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 17:23:54 -0600 Message-ID: From: Burke Chris-CCB007 To: "'ietf-weird@imc.org'" Subject: Two WEIRD Hot Topic Papers Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 17:23:54 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ietf-weird@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Kathy Bosovich's paper on multicast: http://home.earthlink.net/~serotonin/Multicasting2_2_8_00.html Chris Burke's paper on wireless: http://home.earthlink.net/~serotonin/HotTopicWireless.htm These are for discussion at Adelaide. As you can see we do not have a common style sheet yet, although I think Kathy's article is more along the lines of the templates we discussed at past meetings. Chris Burke From owner-ietf-weird Tue Mar 21 21:57:01 2000 Received: by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA25526 for ietf-weird-bks; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 21:57:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from motgate.mot.com (motgate.mot.com [129.188.136.100]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA25520 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 21:56:59 -0800 (PST) Received: [from mothost.mot.com (mothost.mot.com [129.188.137.101]) by motgate.mot.com (motgate 2.1) with ESMTP id WAA18073 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 22:58:49 -0700 (MST)] Received: [from s-il06al.corp.mot.com (s-il06al.corp.mot.com [199.2.152.60]) by mothost.mot.com (MOT-mothost 2.0) with ESMTP id WAA16325 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 22:58:49 -0700 (MST)] Received: by s-il06al.corp.mot.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 23:58:49 -0600 Message-ID: From: Burke Chris-CCB007 To: "'Bernie Monette'" , Austin Bill-P23393 Cc: "'ietf-weird@imc.org'" Subject: DRAFT: 'WEIRD Guide to the BOFs' Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 23:58:48 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ietf-weird@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Here's a first draft (incomplete) at a "WEIRD Guide to the BOFs". http://home.earthlink.net/~serotonin/BOFs47.htm I plan to continue working on this, and want to finish it and get it up on the web site by tomorrow. If you'd like to help, just follow the hyperlink on each BOF in the document to get to the agenda, then write a digest of the agenda similar to the ones I've provided for BLOCKS, IWW, and ITRACE. To avoid duplication, let me know which ones you want to work on. I plan on doing these today / tomorrow: IPS, VPIM, SIP323, FOGLAMPS. Could use help on B2BXML, IMAPEXT, FICKLE, VOMPLS, RPERFMAN, TMNSNMP, IPSRA, SYSLOG, and IPO. Process: Send me your digests, I will drop them into the master document. Bernie, let's publish to your prototype site. Once it's up maybe we can get Steve Coya to put a link to it on the IETF main page, or in the Adelaide meeting links. Chris > -----Original Message----- > From: Bernie Monette [SMTP:monette@iaai.ca] > Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2000 2:36 PM > To: Burke Chris-CCB007 > Subject: Re: Anybody want to whip up a 'WEIRD Guide to the BOFs'? > > Where do I get the info? > > Bernie > > Bernie Monette > InterActive Arts > Internet Presence Management > http://www.iaai.ca mailto:monette@iaai.ca (416) 469-4337 > InterActive Arts has been named one of the top 50 Canadian Web > Development Companies. Go to http://www.iaai.ca/iaai_branham.html > > Burke Chris-CCB007 wrote: > > > > I might do this myself, but would be happy to collaborate with others on > the > > list. > > > > There are a lot of very interesting BOFs planned for Adelaide. I'd like > to > > arrange them topically, using our list of 'hot topics' as a schema, and > put > > a web page up on the prototype WEIRD site with a single paragraph > > description and the time of each BOF. > > > > I have a crazy vision of doing this BEFORE the conference opens on > Sunday. > > Any takers? > > > > Chris Burke From owner-ietf-weird Tue Mar 21 22:16:13 2000 Received: by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA27298 for ietf-weird-bks; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 22:16:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from motgate2.mot.com (motgate2.mot.com [136.182.1.10]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA27289 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 22:16:12 -0800 (PST) Received: [from pobox.mot.com (pobox.mot.com [129.188.137.100]) by motgate2.mot.com (motgate2 2.1) with ESMTP id XAA28289 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 23:18:02 -0700 (MST)] Received: [from il06exw10.corp.mot.com (il06exw10.corp.mot.com [199.5.78.81]) by pobox.mot.com (MOT-pobox 2.0) with ESMTP id XAA13461 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 23:18:02 -0700 (MST)] Received: by il06exw10.corp.mot.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 00:18:02 -0600 Message-ID: From: Burke Chris-CCB007 To: "'Bernie Monette'" , Austin Bill-P23393 Cc: "'ietf-weird@imc.org'" Subject: RE: DRAFT: 'WEIRD Guide to the BOFs' Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 00:17:52 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ietf-weird@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: I am adding time and location information for each BOF as well. > -----Original Message----- > From: Burke Chris-CCB007 [SMTP:Chris.Burke@motorola.com] > Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2000 9:59 PM > To: 'Bernie Monette'; Austin Bill-P23393 > Cc: 'ietf-weird@imc.org' > Subject: DRAFT: 'WEIRD Guide to the BOFs' > > Here's a first draft (incomplete) at a "WEIRD Guide to the BOFs". > > http://home.earthlink.net/~serotonin/BOFs47.htm > > I plan to continue working on this, and want to finish it and get it up on > the web site by tomorrow. If you'd like to help, just follow the hyperlink > on each BOF in the document to get to the agenda, then write a digest of > the > agenda similar to the ones I've provided for BLOCKS, IWW, and ITRACE. > > To avoid duplication, let me know which ones you want to work on. I plan > on > doing these today / tomorrow: > IPS, VPIM, SIP323, FOGLAMPS. Could use help on B2BXML, IMAPEXT, FICKLE, > VOMPLS, RPERFMAN, TMNSNMP, IPSRA, SYSLOG, and IPO. > > Process: Send me your digests, I will drop them into the master document. > Bernie, let's publish to your prototype site. Once it's up maybe we can > get > Steve Coya to put a link to it on the IETF main page, or in the Adelaide > meeting links. > > Chris > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Bernie Monette [SMTP:monette@iaai.ca] > > Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2000 2:36 PM > > To: Burke Chris-CCB007 > > Subject: Re: Anybody want to whip up a 'WEIRD Guide to the BOFs'? > > > > Where do I get the info? > > > > Bernie > > > > Bernie Monette > > InterActive Arts > > Internet Presence Management > > http://www.iaai.ca mailto:monette@iaai.ca (416) 469-4337 > > InterActive Arts has been named one of the top 50 Canadian Web > > Development Companies. Go to http://www.iaai.ca/iaai_branham.html > > > > Burke Chris-CCB007 wrote: > > > > > > I might do this myself, but would be happy to collaborate with others > on > > the > > > list. > > > > > > There are a lot of very interesting BOFs planned for Adelaide. I'd > like > > to > > > arrange them topically, using our list of 'hot topics' as a schema, > and > > put > > > a web page up on the prototype WEIRD site with a single paragraph > > > description and the time of each BOF. > > > > > > I have a crazy vision of doing this BEFORE the conference opens on > > Sunday. > > > Any takers? > > > > > > Chris Burke From owner-ietf-weird Wed Mar 22 00:52:51 2000 Received: by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA04600 for ietf-weird-bks; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 00:52:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from ftpbox.mot.com (ftpbox.mot.com [129.188.136.101]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA04593 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 00:52:50 -0800 (PST) Received: [from pobox2.mot.com (pobox2.mot.com [136.182.15.8]) by ftpbox.mot.com (ftpbox 2.1) with ESMTP id BAA19485 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 01:54:40 -0700 (MST)] Received: [from s-il06al.corp.mot.com (s-il06al.corp.mot.com [199.2.152.60]) by pobox2.mot.com (MOT-pobox2 2.0) with ESMTP id BAA28478 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 01:54:40 -0700 (MST)] Received: by s-il06al.corp.mot.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 02:54:39 -0600 Message-ID: From: Burke Chris-CCB007 To: "'Bernie Monette'" , Austin Bill-P23393 Cc: "'ietf-weird@imc.org'" Subject: Snooze You Lose! The WEIRD Guide to IETF BOFs is done Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 02:54:34 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ietf-weird@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Well, a complete first draft, anyway. Let me know what you think, how to make the content more usable. I still want to get this up on the web site before Adelaide. Thanks! Chris Burke > http://home.earthlink.net/~serotonin/BOFs47.htm From owner-ietf-weird Wed Mar 22 01:14:38 2000 Received: by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA06233 for ietf-weird-bks; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 01:14:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from gemma.TechFak.Uni-Bielefeld.DE (gemma.TechFak.Uni-Bielefeld.DE [129.70.136.103]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA06228 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 01:14:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from grimsvotn.TechFak.Uni-Bielefeld.DE (grimsvotn.TechFak.Uni-Bielefeld.DE [129.70.136.13]) by gemma.TechFak.Uni-Bielefeld.DE (8.9.1/8.9.1/TechFak/pk+ro19980721) with SMTP id KAA26967; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 10:16:25 +0100 (MET) Received: from localhost by grimsvotn.TechFak.Uni-Bielefeld.DE (SMI-8.6/pk19971205) id KAA13706; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 10:16:25 +0100 Message-Id: <200003220916.KAA13706@grimsvotn.TechFak.Uni-Bielefeld.DE> To: Burke Chris-CCB007 Cc: "IETF WEIRD WG" Subject: Re: Snooze You Lose! The WEIRD Guide to IETF BOFs is done In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 22 Mar 2000 02:54:34 CST." X-Organization: Uni Bielefeld, Technische Fakultaet X-Phone: +49 521 106 2902 Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 10:16:24 +0100 From: Peter Koch Sender: owner-ietf-weird@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Hi Chris, > Well, a complete first draft, anyway. Let me know what you think, how to > make the content more usable. I still want to get this up on the web site looks fine to me! Three remarks: o In the first paragraph you say ``discuss creation of new IETF working groups''. This is correct, but may mislead raeders to think that every BOF leads to a WG, which is not the case. How about something like ``evaluate interest in a certain topic which may lead to the creation of a new IETF WG''? o The second paragraph contains `` ... posted to the IETF New Work mailing list ...''. Instead of linking in a mailto:-URL I'd suggest pointing to a descriptive page for that mailing list. I must admit, I've seen it in the address field of BOF announcements, but what exactly is its purpose? o Also for BOFs a plea to people to prepare in advance and read the documents might be appropriate in the explanation section. -Peter From owner-ietf-weird Wed Mar 22 01:29:00 2000 Received: by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA06886 for ietf-weird-bks; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 01:29:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from marvin.axion.bt.co.uk (marvin.axion.bt.co.uk [132.146.16.82]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA06881 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 01:28:58 -0800 (PST) From: graham.travers@bt.com Received: from cclmsent02.lon.bt.com by marvin (local) with ESMTP; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 09:29:06 +0000 Received: by cclmsent02.lon.bt.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2651.88) id ; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 09:27:19 -0000 Message-ID: <451D45016C2CD2119DA50000F8FE7F0705D8E81A@mlngcbnt01.hc.bt.com> To: Chris.Burke@motorola.com, monette@iaai.ca, Bill.Austin@motorola.com Cc: ietf-weird@imc.org Subject: RE: Snooze You Lose! The WEIRD Guide to IETF BOFs is done Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 09:27:16 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2651.88) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ietf-weird@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Chris, I'm sorry that I won't be joining you at Adelaide. It's nothing personal :-) , I'm not attending this meeting. Regards, Graham. Graham Travers ( graham.travers@bt.com ) > acd IP Standards Co-ordinator > *+44 1359 235086 * +44 1359 235087 * 0780 8502536 * HW B279, P.O. Box 200, London, N18 1ZF > -----Original Message----- > From: Burke Chris-CCB007 [SMTP:Chris.Burke@motorola.com] > Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2000 8:55 AM > To: 'Bernie Monette'; Austin Bill-P23393 > Cc: 'ietf-weird@imc.org' > Subject: Snooze You Lose! The WEIRD Guide to IETF BOFs is done > > Well, a complete first draft, anyway. Let me know what you think, how to > make the content more usable. I still want to get this up on the web site > before Adelaide. Thanks! Chris Burke > > > http://home.earthlink.net/~serotonin/BOFs47.htm From owner-ietf-weird Wed Mar 22 20:41:16 2000 Received: by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA15159 for ietf-weird-bks; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 20:41:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from comnet.ca (comnet.ca [207.107.47.2]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA15145 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 20:41:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from comnet.ca (dynamic-606.comnet.ca [206.186.72.162]) by comnet.ca (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA18065; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 23:41:39 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <38D9590F.3C91BBBF@comnet.ca> Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 23:36:47 +0000 From: Bernie Monette Organization: InterActive Arts X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Burke Chris-CCB007 CC: "'Bernie Monette'" , Austin Bill-P23393 , "'ietf-weird@imc.org'" Subject: Re: Snooze You Lose! The WEIRD Guide to IETF BOFs is done References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-weird@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Chris: The page looks fine. The only thing is that the page is very long. So I would put a table of contents on the left side with links to each BOF. Maybe the WEIRD icons as well, branding etc., to incorporate it into the entire site. I can do this if you like. Bernie Burke Chris-CCB007 wrote: > > Well, a complete first draft, anyway. Let me know what you think, how to > make the content more usable. I still want to get this up on the web site > before Adelaide. Thanks! Chris Burke > > > http://home.earthlink.net/~serotonin/BOFs47.htm -- Bernie Monette InterActive Arts Internet Presence Management http://www.iaai.ca mailto:monette@iaai.ca (416) 469-4337 We have been chosen as one of Canada's 'Top 50' Web development firms. Go to http://www.iaai.ca/iaai_branham.html for details. From owner-ietf-weird Wed Mar 29 06:28:53 2000 Received: by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA28785 for ietf-weird-bks; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 06:28:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from ftpbox.mot.com (ftpbox.mot.com [129.188.136.101]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA28780 for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 06:28:52 -0800 (PST) Received: [from pobox.mot.com (pobox.mot.com [129.188.137.100]) by ftpbox.mot.com (ftpbox 2.1) with ESMTP id HAA11052 for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 07:31:18 -0700 (MST)] Received: [from il06exb01.corp.mot.com (il06exb01.corp.mot.com [199.5.78.83]) by pobox.mot.com (MOT-pobox 2.0) with ESMTP id HAA00303 for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 07:31:12 -0700 (MST)] Received: by il06exb01.corp.mot.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 08:13:28 -0600 Message-ID: From: Burke Chris-CCB007 To: "'ietf-weird@imc.org'" Subject: REMINDER: Adelaide Agenda Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 08:13:24 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ietf-weird@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: At the WG meeting Thursday afternoon in Adelaide we will discuss: Bernie Monette's web page prototype: http://www.iaai.ca/weird > Kathy Bosovich's paper on multicast: > http://home.earthlink.net/~serotonin/Multicasting2_2_8_00.html > > Chris Burke's paper on wireless: > http://home.earthlink.net/~serotonin/HotTopicWireless.htm > > As you can see we do not have a common style sheet yet, although I think > Kathy's article is more along the lines of > the templates we discussed at past meetings. > NOTE: I have been asked to say a few words about WEIRD at the IAB wireless BOF. Now that we have some real content to offer, people are starting to appreciate our work. Thanks to everybody, and keep it up! > Chris Burke > From owner-ietf-weird Wed Apr 5 11:20:50 2000 Received: by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA03445 for ietf-weird-bks; Wed, 5 Apr 2000 11:20:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from motgate.mot.com (motgate.mot.com [129.188.136.100]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA03441 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 2000 11:20:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: [from pobox.mot.com (pobox.mot.com [129.188.137.100]) by motgate.mot.com (motgate 2.1) with ESMTP id LAA11308 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 2000 11:23:52 -0700 (MST)] Received: [from il06exb01.corp.mot.com (il06exb01.corp.mot.com [199.5.78.83]) by pobox.mot.com (MOT-pobox 2.0) with ESMTP id LAA29259 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 2000 11:23:52 -0700 (MST)] Received: by il06exb01.corp.mot.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Wed, 5 Apr 2000 13:23:52 -0500 Message-ID: From: Burke Chris-CCB007 To: "'ietf-weird@imc.org'" Subject: Adelaide WEIRD WG Summary Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 13:23:51 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ietf-weird@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: These are not the official minutes, but rather a summary of discussion for the Area Directors. Chris --- > The WEIRD WG discussed five documents (web page prototypes [Jones] > [Monette], multicast paper [Bosovich], wireless paper [Burke], BOF Guide > [Burke]) and recommended changes / improvements. Several new participants > volunteered to help develop content for the public web site. The BOF Guide > attracted a lot of interest, and a sub-team formed to develop and publish > a BOF Guide for the Pittsburgh meeting. It was also recommended that the > sub-team follow-up with digests of the BOF minutes and presentations, in > addition to the pre-BOF information published for Adelaide. We discussed > progress against the working group charter and agreed on four action items > to complete between now and Pittsburgh: get the rest of the "Hot Topics" > papers written; launch the BOF guide sub-team activity and prepare the > Pittsburgh BOF Guide; assign root site and webmaster for the public web > pages; bring the web site on-line with BOF Guide and Hot Topic content > before Pittsburgh. The chairman reminded participants of the original > WEIRD WG charter, which calls for progress assessment and a decision to > re-charter / disband WEIRD in the Pittsburgh timeframe; discussion of the > issue will be opened on the mailing list this week. From owner-ietf-weird Tue May 9 10:39:25 2000 Received: by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA23530 for ietf-weird-bks; Tue, 9 May 2000 10:39:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from scooby.lineone.net ([194.75.152.224]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA23520; Tue, 9 May 2000 10:39:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ukd ([195.171.177.9]) by scooby.lineone.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA21977; Tue, 9 May 2000 16:27:42 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <013c01bfb9cc$8f482480$09b1abc3@ukd> From: "Charlie Fletcher - www.ukdata.com" To: "Finance Director" Subject: Instant On-Line Credit Reports Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 16:34:00 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-ietf-weird@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Do you need fast accurate information to assist you when appraising potential customers, and suppliers? The UK Data internet website www.ukdata.com contains 28 million pages of data with full information on every UK company! Credit Reports-Director Searches-Accounts-Annual Returns All of these products and many more are available to you immediately, and can be downloaded to and printed from your personal computer. Free samples of all reports are available at www.ukdata.com. Please also visit www.formacompany.co.uk the on-line company formation website Thank You Charles Fletcher www.ukdata.com an instant report on every UK business www.formacompany.co.uk the on-line company formation site www.irishdata.ie - instant reports on all Irish companies From owner-ietf-weird Tue May 16 22:28:59 2000 Received: by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA00110 for ietf-weird-bks; Tue, 16 May 2000 22:28:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from guardian.apnic.net (guardian.apnic.net [203.37.255.100]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA00106 for ; Tue, 16 May 2000 22:28:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from mail@localhost) by guardian.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA02673 for ; Wed, 17 May 2000 15:35:26 +1000 (EST) Received: from julubu.staff.apnic.net(192.168.1.37) by int-gw.staff.apnic.net via smap (V2.1) id xma002667; Wed, 17 May 00 15:34:59 +1000 Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 15:34:59 +1000 (EST) From: Bruce Campbell X-Sender: bc@julubu.staff.apnic.net To: "'ietf-weird@imc.org'" Subject: Re: Adelaide WEIRD WG Summary In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ietf-weird@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: On Wed, 5 Apr 2000, Burke Chris-CCB007 wrote: Chris.> These are not the official minutes, but rather a summary of discussion for Chris.> the Area Directors. Chris Chris.> --- Chris.> > The WEIRD WG discussed five documents (web page prototypes [Jones] Chris.> > [Monette], multicast paper [Bosovich], wireless paper [Burke], BOF Guide Chris.> > [Burke]) and recommended changes / improvements. Several new participants Chris.> > volunteered to help develop content for the public web site. The BOF Guide Chris.> > attracted a lot of interest, and a sub-team formed to develop and publish Chris.> > a BOF Guide for the Pittsburgh meeting. It was also recommended that the Chris.> > sub-team follow-up with digests of the BOF minutes and presentations, in Chris.> > addition to the pre-BOF information published for Adelaide. We discussed Chris.> > progress against the working group charter and agreed on four action items Chris.> > to complete between now and Pittsburgh: get the rest of the "Hot Topics" Chris.> > papers written; launch the BOF guide sub-team activity and prepare the Chris.> > Pittsburgh BOF Guide; assign root site and webmaster for the public web Chris.> > pages; bring the web site on-line with BOF Guide and Hot Topic content Chris.> > before Pittsburgh. The chairman reminded participants of the original Chris.> > WEIRD WG charter, which calls for progress assessment and a decision to Chris.> > re-charter / disband WEIRD in the Pittsburgh timeframe; discussion of the Chris.> > issue will be opened on the mailing list this week. Right. Whose got what? --==-- Bruce. This is your wakeup and reminder notice. There are 2 months left. From owner-ietf-weird Sat Jul 29 11:00:21 2000 Received: by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA24962 for ietf-weird-bks; Sat, 29 Jul 2000 11:00:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from altavistausa.com (max1-3.newyork.corecomm.net [209.81.238.131]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA24929; Sat, 29 Jul 2000 10:59:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Subject: Re: From Lorraine,as promised,I can lower your bill Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 14:59:12 Message-Id: <894.14814.93337@altavistausa.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-ietf-weird@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Untitled Document


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For more information call 1 800 SEND 123 or http://www.sendflowersamerica.com Imagine earning money for your organization by making someone smile :-) From owner-ietf-weird Fri Sep 8 10:12:21 2000 Received: by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA26656 for ietf-weird-bks; Fri, 8 Sep 2000 10:12:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.gmx.net (pop.gmx.net [194.221.183.20]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA26652 for ; Fri, 8 Sep 2000 10:12:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 11591 invoked by uid 0); 8 Sep 2000 17:13:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO nassau) (149.81.0.5) by mail.gmx.net with SMTP; 8 Sep 2000 17:13:37 -0000 To: "'ietf-weird@imc.org'" From: "NorthStar.com" Subject: Your current resume Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2000 13:31:06 -0500 Message-Id: <36777.563265613425800.306568@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-ietf-weird@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Greetings, I found your contact information on the web while conducting a search for IT professionals to fill a few select positions available with my clients. These are all highly visible full-time, permanent positions with e-commerce and financial firms in the New York City Metro area offering great growth opportunities and excellent compensation and benefits packages. If you are still on the market, or considering it, please email your current resume to careers@northstar.com; also, please specify your current and desired compensation package. Some background information: NorthStar Technologies, Inc. is a technical consulting and recruiting firm in the Wall Street area with clients in the e-commerce, financial and computer services industries throughout the Northeast. By all means, visit our website - http://www.northstar.com - and review our job bank periodically. I look forward to hearing from you soon. 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If you would like to be removed from these mailings in the future please mailto:bubblehead32@hotmail.com?subject=remove From owner-ietf-weird Sat Oct 14 19:26:50 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA10616 for ietf-weird-bks; Sat, 14 Oct 2000 19:26:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from exchange_01.wilsondd.com (mail.wilsondd.com [62.172.104.90]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA10608; Sat, 14 Oct 2000 19:26:38 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 19:26:38 -0700 (PDT) From: paul@bourgeat.fr Message-Id: <200010150226.TAA10608@ns.secondary.com> Received: from alli (ip62.schiller-park9.il.pub-ip.psi.net [38.31.126.62]) by exchange_01.wilsondd.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2650.21) id T8LV5HD0; Sun, 15 Oct 2000 03:25:32 +0100 To: paul@bourgeat.fr Subject: Truly Earn $50,000 in 90 Days! It Works! Sender: owner-ietf-weird@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Dear Friend, This really works! Have the faith, don't miss this opportunity, get involved also, and it will work for you as it does for us!!!!! Thank you for your time and interest. This email contains the ENTIRE PLAN of how YOU can make $50,000 or more in the next 90 days simply sending email! Seem impossible? Just read on and see how easy this is.... Due to the popularity of this letter on the Internet, a major nightly news program recently devoted an entire show to the investigation of the program described below to see if it really can make people money. The show also investigated whether or not the program was legal. Their findings proved that there are absolutely no laws prohibiting the participation in the program. This has helped to show people that this is a simple, harmless and fun way to make some extra money at home. The results have been truly remarkable. So many people are participating that those involved are doing much better than ever before. Since everyone makes more as more people try it out, its been very exciting. You will understand once you try it yourself! ********* THE ENTIRE PLAN IS HERE BELOW ********* *** Print This Now For Future Reference *** $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ If you would like to make at least $50,000 in less than 90 days! Please read this program...THEN READ IT AGAIN!! $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ THIS IS A LEGITIMATE, LEGAL, MONEY MAKING OPPORTUNITY!! It does NOT require you to come into contact with people or make or take any telephone calls. Just follow the instructions, and you will make money. This simplified e-mail marketing program works perfectly 100% EVERY TIME! E-mail is the sales tool of the future. Take advantage of this virtually free method of advertising NOW!!! The longer you wait, the more people will be doing business using email. Get your piece of this action!!! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Hello - My name is Johnathon Rourke, I'm from Rhode Island. The enclosed information is something I almost let slip through my fingers. Fortunately, sometime later I re-read everything and gave some thought and study to it. Two years ago, the corporation I worked for the past twelve years down-sized and my position was eliminated. After unproductive job interviews, I decided to open my own business. Over the past year, I incurred many unforeseen financial problems. I owed my family, friends and creditors over $35,000. The economy was taking a toll on my business and I just couldn't seem to make ends meet. I had to refinance and borrow against my home to support my family and struggling business. AT THAT MOMENT something significant happened in my life. I am writing to share the experience in hopes that this could change your life FOREVER. FINANCIALLY$$$!!! In mid December, I received this program in my e-mail. Six months prior to receiving this program I had been sending away for information on various business opportunities. All of the programs I received, in my opinion, were not cost effective. They were either too difficult for me to comprehend or the initial investment was too much for me to risk to see if they would work. But as I was saying, in December of 1997 I received this program. I didn't send for it, or ask for it, they just got my name off a mailing list. THANK GOODNESS FOR THAT!!! After reading it several times, to make sure I was reading it correctly. I couldn't believe my eyes! Here was a MONEY MAKING MACHINE I could start immediately without any debt. Like most of you I was still a little skeptical and a little worried about the legal aspects of it all. So I checked it out with the U.S. Post Office (1-800-725-2161 24-hrs) and they confirmed that it is indeed legal! After determining the program was LEGAL I decided "WHY NOT!?!??" Initially I sent out 10,000 e-mails. It cost me about $15 for my time on-line. The great thing about e-mail is that I don't need any for printing to send out the program, and because I also send the product (reports) by e-mail, my only expense is my time. In less than one week, I was starting to receive orders for REPORT #1. By January 13, I had received 26 orders for REPORT #1. Your goal is to "RECEIVE at least 20 ORDERS FOR REPORT #1 WITHIN 2 WEEKS. IF YOU DON'T, SEND OUT MORE PROGRAMS UNTIL YOU DO. My first step in making $50,000 in 90 days was done. By January 30, I had received 196 orders for REPORT #2. Your goal is to "RECEIVE AT LEAST 100+ ORDERS FOR REPORT #2 WITHIN 2 WEEKS. IF NOT, SEND OUT MORE PROGRAMS UNTIL YOU DO. ONCE YOU HAVE 100 ORDERS, THE REST IS EASY, RELAX, YOU WILL MAKE YOUR $50,000 GOAL." Well, I had 196 orders for REPORT #2. 96 more than I needed. So I sat back and relaxed. By March 1, of my e-mailing of 10,000, received $58,000 with more coming in every day. I paid off ALL my debts and bought a much needed new car! Please take your time to read this plan, IT WILL CHANGE YOUR LIFE FOREVER$!!! Remember, it won't work if you don't try it. This program does work, but you must follow it EXACTLY! Especially the rules of not trying to place your name in a different place. It won't work and you'll lose out on a lot of money! In order for this program to work, you must meet your goal of 20+ orders for REPORT #1, and 100+ orders for REPORT #2 and you will make $50,000 or more in 90 days. I AM LIVING PROOF THAT IT WORKS!!! If you choose not to participate in this program, I am sorry. It really is a great opportunity with little cost or risk to you. If you choose to participate, follow the program and you will be on your way to financial security. If you are a fellow business owner and are in financial trouble like I was, or you want to start your own business, consider this a sign. I DID! $$ Sincerely, Johnathon Rourke ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ A PERSONAL NOTE FROM THE ORIGINATOR OF THIS PROGRAM: By the time you have read the enclosed program and reports, you should have concluded that such a program, and one that is legal, could not have been created by an amateur. Let me tell you a little about myself. I had a profitable business for 10 years. Then in 1979 my business began falling off. I was doing the same things that were previously successful for me, but it wasn't working. Finally, I figured it out. It wasn't me, it was the economy. Inflation and recession had replaced the stable economy that had been with us since 1945. I don't have to tell you what happened to the unemployment rate... because many of you know from first hand experience. There were more failures and bankruptcies than ever before. The middle class was vanishing. Those who knew what they were doing invested wisely and moved up. Those who did not, including those who never had anything to save or invest, were moving down into the ranks of the poor. As the saying goes, "THE RICH GET RICHER AND THE POOR GET POORER." The traditional methods of making money will never allow you to"move up" or "get rich", inflation will see to that. You have just received information that can give you financial freedom for the rest of your life, with "NO RISK" and "JUST A LITTLE BIT OF EFFORT." You can make more money in the next few months than you have ever imagined. I should also point out that I will not see a penny of this money, nor anyone else who has provided a testimonial for this program. I have retired from the program after sending thousands and thousands of programs. Follow the program EXACTLY AS INSTRUCTED. Do not change it in any way. It works exceedingly well as it is now. Remember to e-mail a copy of this exciting report to everyone you can think of. One of the people you send this to may send out 50,000...and your name will be on everyone of them! Remember though, the more you send out, the more potential customers you will reach. So my friend, I have given you the ideas, information, materials and opportunity to become financially independent. IT IS UP TO YOU!! NOW DO IT!! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Before you delete this program from your in box, as I almost did, take a little time to read it and REALLY THINK ABOUT IT. Get a pencil and figure out what could happen when YOU participate. Figure out the worst possible response and no matter how you calculate it, you will still make a lot of money! You will definitely get back what you invested. Any doubts you have will vanish when your first orders come in. $$$ IT WORKS!!! $$$ Jody Jacobs Richmond, VA ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ HERE'S HOW THIS AMAZING PROGRAM WILL MAKE YOU THOUSANDS OF DOLLAR$$$$!!!! This method of raising capital REALLY WORKS 100% EVERY TIME. I am sure that you could use up to $50,000 or more in the next 90 days. before you say "BULL... ", please read this program carefully. This is not a chain letter, but a perfectly legal money making business. As with all multi-level businesses, we build our business by recruiting new partners and selling our products. Every state in the USA allows you to recruit new multi-level business partners, and we sell and deliver a product for EVERY dollar received. YOUR ORDERS COME BY MAIL AND ARE FILLED BY E-MAIL, so you are not involved in personal selling. You do it privately in your own home, store or office. This is the EASIEST marketing plan anywhere! It is simply order filling by email! ******************************************************************* The product is informational and instructional material, keys to the secrets for everyone on how to open the doors to the magic world of E-COMMERCE , the information highway, the wave of the future ! PLAN SUMMARY: (1) You order the 4 reports listed below ($5 each) They come to you by email. (2) Save a copy of this entire letter and put your name after Report #1 and move the other names down. (3) Via the internet, access Yahoo.com or any of the other major search engines to locate hundreds of bulk email service companies (search for "bulk email") and have them send 25,000 - 50,000 emails for you about $49+) (4) Orders will come to you by postal mail - simply email them the Report they ordered. Let me ask you - isn't this about as easy as it gets? ******************************************************************* By the way there are over 50 MILLION email addresses with millions more joining the internet each year so don't worry about "running out" or "saturation". People are used to seeing and hearing the same advertisements every day on radio/TV. How many times have you received the same pizza flyers on your door? Then one day you are hungry for pizza and you order one. Same thing with this letter. I received this letter many times - then one day I decided it was time to try it. ******************************************************************* YOU CAN START TODAY - JUST DO THESE EASY STEPS: STEP #1. ORDER THE FOUR REPORTS Order the four reports shown on the list below (you can't sell them if you don't order them). -- For each report, send $5.00 CASH, the NAME & NUMBER OF THE REPORT YOU ARE ORDERING, YOUR E-MAIL ADDRESS, and YOUR NAME & RETURN ADDRESS (in case of a problem) to the person whose name appears on the list next to the report. MAKE SURE YOUR RETURN ADDRESS IS ON YOUR ENVELOPE IN CASE OF ANY MAIL PROBLEMS! Within a few days you will receive, by e-mail, each of the four reports. Save them on your computer so you can send them to the 1,000's of people who will order them from you. STEP #2. ADD YOUR MAILING ADDRESS TO THIS LETTER a.Look below for the listing of the four reports. b.After you've ordered the four reports, delete the name and address under REPORT #4. This person has made it through the cycle. c.Move the name and address under REPORT #3 down to REPORT #4. d.Move the name and address under REPORT #2 down to REPORT #3. e.Move the name and address under REPORT #1 down to REPORT #2. f.Insert your name/address in the REPORT #1 position. Please make sure you COPY ALL INFORMATION, every name and address, ACCURATELY! STEP #3. Take this entire letter, including the modified list of names, and save it to your computer. Make NO changes to these instructions. Now you are ready to use this entire email to send by email to prospects. Report #1 will tell you how to download bulk email software and email addresses so you can send it out to thousands of people while you sleep! Remember that 50,000+ new people are joining the internet every month. Your cost to participate in this is practically nothing (surely you can afford $20 and initial bulk mailing cost). You obviously already have a computer and an Internet connection and e-mail is FREE! There are two primary methods of building your downline: METHOD #1: SENDING BULK E-MAIL Let's say that you decide to start small, just to see how it goes, and we'll assume you and all those involved email out only 2,000 programs each. Let's also assume that the mailing receives a 0.5% response. The response could be much better. Also, many people will email outhundreds of thousands of programs instead of 2,000 (Why stop at 2000?). But continuing with this example, you send out only 2,000 programs. With a 0.5% response, that is only 10 orders for REPORT #1. Those 10 people respond by sending out 2,000 programs each for a total of 20,000. Out of those 0.5%, 100 people respond and order REPORT #2. Those 100 mail out 2,000 programs each for a total of 200,000. The 0.5% response to that is 1,000 orders for REPORT #3. Those 1,000 send out 2,000 programs each for a 2,000,000 total. The 0.5% response to that is 10,000 orders for REPORT #4. That's 10,000 $5 bills for you. CASH!!! Your total income in this example is $50 + $500 + $5,000 + $50,000 for a total of $55,550!!! REMEMBER FRIEND, THIS IS ASSUMING 1,990 OUT OF THE 2,000 PEOPLE YOU MAIL TO WILL DO ABSOLUTELY NOTHING AND TRASH THIS PROGRAM! DARE TO THINK FOR A MOMENT WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF EVERYONE, OR HALF SENT OUT 100,000 PROGRAMS INSTEAD OF 2,000. Believe me, many people will do just that, and more! METHOD #2 - PLACING FREE ADS ON THE INTERNET Advertising on the internet is very, very inexpensive, and there are HUNDREDS of FREE places to advertise. Let's say you decide to start small just to see how well it works. Assume your goal is to get ONLY 10 people to participate on your first level. (Placing a lot of FREE ads on the Internet will EASILY get a larger response.) Also assume that everyone else in YOUR ORGANIZATION gets ONLY 10 downline members. Look how this small number accumulates to achieve the STAGGERING results below: 1st level--your first 10 send you $5...........................................................$50 2nd level--10 members from those 10 ($5 x 100).............$500 3rd level--10 members from those 100 ($5 x 1,000)........$5,000 4th level--10 members from those 1,000 ($5 x 10,000)..$50,000 $$$$$$ THIS TOTALS ----------$55,550 $$$$$$ AMAZING ISN'T IT? Remember friends, this assumes that the people who participate only recruit 10 people each. Think for a moment what would happen if they got 20 people to participate! Most people get 100's of participants and many will continue to work this program, sending out programs WITH YOUR NAME ON THEM for years! THINK ABOUT IT! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ People are going to get emails about this plan from you or somebody else and many will work this plan - the question is - Don't you want your name to be on the emails they will send out? * * * DON'T MISS OUT!!! * * * JUST TRY IT ONCE!!! * * * * * SEE WHAT HAPPENS!!! *** YOU'LL BE AMAZED!!!* * ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE ON ALL ORDERS! This will guarantee that the e-mail THEY send out with YOUR name and address on it will be prompt because they can't advertise until they receive the report! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ GET STARTED TODAY: PLACE YOUR ORDER FOR THE FOUR REPORTS NOW. Notes: -- ALWAYS SEND $5 CASH (U.S. CURRENCY) FOR EACH REPORT. CHECKS NOT ACCEPTED. Make sure the cash is concealed by wrapping it in two sheets of paper. On one of those sheets of paper write: (a) the number & name of the report you are ordering (b) your e-mail address, and (c) your name & postal address. REPORT #1 "The Insider's Guide to Advertising for Free on the Internet" ORDER REPORT #1 FROM: John Stitzel 3121 Benninghofen Ave. Hamilton, Ohio 45015 REPORT #2 "The Insider's Guide to Sending Bulk E-mail on the Internet" ORDER REPORT #2 FROM: Lorraine Wride 2350 E. Brower St. Simi Valley, CA 93065 REPORT #3 "The Secrets to Multilevel Marketing on the Internet" ORDER REPORT #3 FROM: Dan Rutherford 1215 Linden Ave. Glendale, CA 91201 REPORT #4 "How to become a Millionaire utilizing the Power of Multilevel Marketing and the Internet" ORDER REPORT #4 FROM: Tina Marie Mitchell 3018 Cottage Grove Court Orlando, FL 32822 ******* TIPS FOR SUCCESS ******* TREAT THIS AS YOUR BUSINESS! Be prompt, professional, and follow the directions accurately. -- Send for the four reports IMMEDIATELY so you will have them when the orders start coming in because: When you receive a $5 order, you MUST send out the requested product/report. It is required for this to be a legal business and they need the reports to send out their letters (with your name on them!) -- ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE ON THE ORDERS YOU RECEIVE. -- Be patient and persistent with this program - If you follow the instructions exactly - results WILL FOLLOW. $$$$ ******* YOUR SUCCESS GUIDELINES ******* Follow these guidelines to guarantee your success: If you don't receive 20 orders for REPORT #1 within two weeks, continue advertising or sending e-mails until you do. Then, a couple of weeks later you should receive at least 100 orders for REPORT#2. If you don't, continue advertising or sending e-mails until you do. Once you have received 100 or more orders for REPORT #2, YOU CAN RELAX, because the system is already working for you, and the cash will continue to roll in! THIS IS IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER: Every time your name is moved down on the list, you are placed in front of a DIFFERENT report. You can KEEP TRACK of your PROGRESS by watching which report people are ordering from you. To generate more income, simply send another batch of e-mails or continue placing ads and start the whole process again! There is no limit to the income you will generate from this business! Before you make your decision as to whether or not you participate in this program. Please answer one question. ARE YOU HAPPY WITH YOUR PRESENT INCOME OR JOB? If the answer is no, then please look at the following facts about this super simple MLM program: 1. NO face to face selling, NO meetings, NO inventory! NO Telephone calls, NO big cost to start!, NOthing to learn, NO skills needed! (Surely you know how to send email?) 2. No equipment to buy - you already have a computer and internet connection - so you have everything you need to fill orders! 3. You are selling a product which does NOT COST ANYTHING TO PRODUCE OR SHIP! (Emailing copies of the reports is FREE!) 4. All of your customers pay you in CA$H! This program will change your LIFE FOREVER!! Look at the potential for you to be able to quit your job and live a life of luxury you could only dream about! Imagine getting out of debt and buying the car and home of your dreams and being able to work a super-high paying leisurely easy business from home! $$$ FINALLY MAKE SOME DREAMS COME TRUE! $$$ ACT NOW! Take your first step toward achieving financial independence. Order the reports and follow the program outlined above-- SUCCESS will be your reward. Thank you for your time and consideration. PLEASE NOTE: If you need help with starting a business, registering a business name, learning how income tax is handled, etc., contact your local office of the Small Business Administration (a Federal Agency) 1-800-827-5722 for free help and answers to questions. Also, the Internal Revenue Service offers free help via telephone and free seminars about business tax reuirements. Your earnings are highly dependent on your activities and advertising. The information contained on this site and in the report constitutes no guarantees stated nor implied. In the event that it is determined that this site or report constitutes a guarantee of any kind, that guarantee is now void. The earnings amounts listed on this site and in the report are estimates only. If you have any questions of the legality of this program, contact the Office of Associate Director for Marketing Practices, Federal Trade Commission, Bureau of Consumer Protection in Washington, DC. ================================================ Under Bill s.1618 TITLE III passed by the 105th US Congress this letter cannot be considered spam as long as the sender includes contact information and a method of removal. This is a one time e-mail transmission. No request for removal is necessary. From owner-ietf-weird Wed Oct 18 11:44:44 2000 Received: by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA23802 for ietf-weird-bks; Wed, 18 Oct 2000 11:44:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shell.nominum.com (shell.nominum.com [204.152.187.59]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA23798 for ; Wed, 18 Oct 2000 11:44:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shell.nominum.com (shell.nominum.com [204.152.187.59]) by shell.nominum.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 853963190E for ; Wed, 18 Oct 2000 11:49:34 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 11:49:34 -0700 (PDT) From: April Marine To: WEIRD WG Subject: San Diego Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ietf-weird@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: So, what do y'all think about meeting in San Diego? At the last IETF, I asked for some feedback from USWG re whether they thought WEIRD should declare its experiment done and close down, or keep going. The consensus was that many thought WEIRD should keep going. Of course, WEIRD didn't meet last time, so it's not like actually asking the WG itself, so I thought I would ask you yourself. One thing that Chris and I have talked about is getting a co-chair. Is it worth conning, uh, drafting someone to assist our WEIRD leader (couldn't resist that one :-), or do you all feel the WG is a loss? Should we schedule a mtg in San Diego to regroup? Should we put "WEIRD status" on the USWG agenda? Anything we should consider that I haven't? Feedback welcome and requested! thanks, April ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ April Marine Director of Client Services april.marine@nominum.com Nominum, Inc. +1.650.779.6006 From owner-ietf-weird Wed Oct 18 11:57:51 2000 Received: by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA24390 for ietf-weird-bks; Wed, 18 Oct 2000 11:57:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rgfsparc.cr.usgs.gov (rgfsparc.cr.usgs.gov [136.177.164.192]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA24381 for ; Wed, 18 Oct 2000 11:57:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rgfsparc.cr.usgs.gov (rgfsparc.cr.usgs.gov [136.177.164.192]) by rgfsparc.cr.usgs.gov (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA05102 for ; Wed, 18 Oct 2000 13:58:02 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <200010181858.NAA05102@rgfsparc.cr.usgs.gov> Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 13:58:02 -0500 (CDT) From: "Robert G. Ferrell" Reply-To: "Robert G. Ferrell" Subject: Re: San Diego To: ietf-weird@imc.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-MD5: auLk4HuCAiZq0MkQ1w6Q1w== X-Mailer: dtmail 1.3.0 CDE Version 1.3 SunOS 5.7 sun4u sparc Sender: owner-ietf-weird@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: >At the last IETF, I asked for some feedback from USWG re whether they >thought WEIRD should declare its experiment done and close down, or keep >going. The consensus was that many thought WEIRD should keep going. Of >course, WEIRD didn't meet last time, so it's not like actually asking the >WG itself, so I thought I would ask you yourself. I may have missed something back at the beginning, but isn't WEIRD supposed to be an ongoing effort, rather than a goal-oriented task like protocol development? I mean, we can't just up and declare one day that the public are sufficiently elucidated, wash our hands and head home, can we? >One thing that Chris and I have talked about is getting a co-chair. Is it >worth conning, uh, drafting someone to assist our WEIRD leader (couldn't >resist that one :-), or do you all feel the WG is a loss? I should think that the number of responses you get to this query will be a fairly accurate reflection of whether or not the group is defunct. I've forwarded a few "WEIRD Questions" from my Web site to the group and gotten zero response. Not even crickets. From that experience I would have to say that, as a working group, there isn't much to go on here. But maybe it was just bad timing. Cheers, RGF Robert G. Ferrell, CISSP Information Systems Security Officer National Business Center U. S. Dept. of the Interior Robert_G_Ferrell@nbc.gov ======================================== Who goeth without humor goeth unarmed. ======================================== From owner-ietf-weird Wed Oct 18 14:03:49 2000 Received: by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA27883 for ietf-weird-bks; Wed, 18 Oct 2000 14:03:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from proxy.cn.huc.edu (www.cn.huc.edu [207.78.247.54]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA27878 for ; Wed, 18 Oct 2000 14:03:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by PROXY with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Wed, 18 Oct 2000 17:09:29 -0400 Message-ID: <308C3372663DD4119DBD00508B8B89CF23F950@PROXY> From: "Bruggeman, John" To: ietf-weird@imc.org Subject: RE: San Diego Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 17:09:20 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Sender: owner-ietf-weird@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Based on this email list I was assuming the list was somewhat dead as well. I haven't heard much here - I thought maybe I was missing something (like some other active list). Perhaps not - is this this only WEIRD mailing list? John -----Original Message----- From: Robert G. Ferrell [mailto:root@rgfsparc.cr.usgs.gov] Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2000 2:58 PM To: ietf-weird@imc.org Subject: Re: San Diego >At the last IETF, I asked for some feedback from USWG re whether they >thought WEIRD should declare its experiment done and close down, or keep >going. The consensus was that many thought WEIRD should keep going. Of >course, WEIRD didn't meet last time, so it's not like actually asking the >WG itself, so I thought I would ask you yourself. I may have missed something back at the beginning, but isn't WEIRD supposed to be an ongoing effort, rather than a goal-oriented task like protocol development? I mean, we can't just up and declare one day that the public are sufficiently elucidated, wash our hands and head home, can we? >One thing that Chris and I have talked about is getting a co-chair. Is it >worth conning, uh, drafting someone to assist our WEIRD leader (couldn't >resist that one :-), or do you all feel the WG is a loss? I should think that the number of responses you get to this query will be a fairly accurate reflection of whether or not the group is defunct. I've forwarded a few "WEIRD Questions" from my Web site to the group and gotten zero response. Not even crickets. From that experience I would have to say that, as a working group, there isn't much to go on here. But maybe it was just bad timing. Cheers, RGF Robert G. Ferrell, CISSP Information Systems Security Officer National Business Center U. S. Dept. of the Interior Robert_G_Ferrell@nbc.gov ======================================== Who goeth without humor goeth unarmed. ======================================== From owner-ietf-weird Wed Oct 18 14:23:00 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA28410 for ietf-weird-bks; Wed, 18 Oct 2000 14:23:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from motgate.mot.com (motgate.mot.com [129.188.136.100]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA28405 for ; Wed, 18 Oct 2000 14:22:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: [from pobox.mot.com (pobox.mot.com [129.188.137.100]) by motgate.mot.com (motgate 2.1) with ESMTP id OAA05622 for ; Wed, 18 Oct 2000 14:28:09 -0700 (MST)] Received: [from az33exi01.corp.mot.com (az33exi01.corp.mot.com [199.2.84.10]) by pobox.mot.com (MOT-pobox 2.0) with ESMTP id OAA12508 for ; Wed, 18 Oct 2000 14:28:08 -0700 (MST)] Received: by az33exi01.corp.mot.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2651.58) id <4Q66QC1Q>; Wed, 18 Oct 2000 14:28:08 -0700 Message-ID: <7DB8A48B5875D411875E00805F77919C8AB17D@az25exm04.geg.mot.com> From: Austin Bill-P23393 To: ietf-weird@imc.org Subject: RE: San Diego Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 14:28:06 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2651.58) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-ietf-weird@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: What has the group accomplished? Have we measured the results of those accomplishments? How many visitors per day come to the WEIRD Web site? Is that number increasing or decreasing? What kind of questions and how many questions are asked by visitors at the web site? Is our mailing list for our visitors growing or shrinking in size and how active is the message traffic on that list? How long do visitors to the web site stay and look around? How often do they return? Do they refer other people to the site? How many other web sites link to this one? How well are we placed in search engines for our "targeted" key word and phrases? ... And so forth. ... Lots of questions. Not many answers. How serious do we want to get about this? Bill Austin http://www.motorola.com/aspira/ http://bluetooth.listbot.com/ http://www.egroups.com/group/wirelesslan/ -----Original Message----- From: Bruggeman, John [mailto:jbruggeman@cn.huc.edu] Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2000 2:09 PM To: ietf-weird@imc.org Subject: RE: San Diego Based on this email list I was assuming the list was somewhat dead as well. I haven't heard much here - I thought maybe I was missing something (like some other active list). Perhaps not - is this this only WEIRD mailing list? John -----Original Message----- From: Robert G. Ferrell [mailto:root@rgfsparc.cr.usgs.gov] Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2000 2:58 PM To: ietf-weird@imc.org Subject: Re: San Diego >At the last IETF, I asked for some feedback from USWG re whether they >thought WEIRD should declare its experiment done and close down, or keep >going. The consensus was that many thought WEIRD should keep going. Of >course, WEIRD didn't meet last time, so it's not like actually asking the >WG itself, so I thought I would ask you yourself. I may have missed something back at the beginning, but isn't WEIRD supposed to be an ongoing effort, rather than a goal-oriented task like protocol development? I mean, we can't just up and declare one day that the public are sufficiently elucidated, wash our hands and head home, can we? >One thing that Chris and I have talked about is getting a co-chair. Is it >worth conning, uh, drafting someone to assist our WEIRD leader (couldn't >resist that one :-), or do you all feel the WG is a loss? I should think that the number of responses you get to this query will be a fairly accurate reflection of whether or not the group is defunct. I've forwarded a few "WEIRD Questions" from my Web site to the group and gotten zero response. Not even crickets. From that experience I would have to say that, as a working group, there isn't much to go on here. But maybe it was just bad timing. Cheers, RGF Robert G. Ferrell, CISSP Information Systems Security Officer National Business Center U. S. Dept. of the Interior Robert_G_Ferrell@nbc.gov ======================================== Who goeth without humor goeth unarmed. ======================================== From owner-ietf-weird Wed Oct 18 15:21:11 2000 Received: by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA29541 for ietf-weird-bks; Wed, 18 Oct 2000 15:21:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from motgate2.mot.com (motgate2.mot.com [136.182.1.10]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA29526 for ; Wed, 18 Oct 2000 15:21:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: [from pobox.mot.com (pobox.mot.com [129.188.137.100]) by motgate2.mot.com (motgate2 2.1) with ESMTP id PAA18929 for ; Wed, 18 Oct 2000 15:25:55 -0700 (MST)] Received: [from il06exw10.corp.mot.com (il06exw10.corp.mot.com [199.5.78.81]) by pobox.mot.com (MOT-pobox 2.0) with ESMTP id PAA28292 for ; Wed, 18 Oct 2000 15:25:54 -0700 (MST)] Received: by il06exw10.corp.mot.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2651.58) id <48D2GSBB>; Wed, 18 Oct 2000 17:24:49 -0500 Message-ID: <034D8B328BD3D311BDC0009027E33C1701754739@il06exm22.corp.mot.com> From: Burke Chris-CCB007 To: "'April Marine'" , WEIRD WG Subject: RE: San Diego Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 17:24:39 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2651.58) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ietf-weird@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Co-Chair might work well here. I've been swamped with work and personal issues for a while now and we've made very little progress, for which I apologize to the WG. I still think the work is worthwhile, and would appreciate the help. Chris -----Original Message----- From: April Marine [mailto:April.Marine@nominum.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2000 11:50 AM To: WEIRD WG Subject: San Diego So, what do y'all think about meeting in San Diego? At the last IETF, I asked for some feedback from USWG re whether they thought WEIRD should declare its experiment done and close down, or keep going. The consensus was that many thought WEIRD should keep going. Of course, WEIRD didn't meet last time, so it's not like actually asking the WG itself, so I thought I would ask you yourself. One thing that Chris and I have talked about is getting a co-chair. Is it worth conning, uh, drafting someone to assist our WEIRD leader (couldn't resist that one :-), or do you all feel the WG is a loss? Should we schedule a mtg in San Diego to regroup? Should we put "WEIRD status" on the USWG agenda? Anything we should consider that I haven't? Feedback welcome and requested! thanks, April ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ April Marine Director of Client Services april.marine@nominum.com Nominum, Inc. +1.650.779.6006 From owner-ietf-weird Thu Oct 19 01:19:30 2000 Received: by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA14230 for ietf-weird-bks; Thu, 19 Oct 2000 01:19:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from marvin.axion.bt.co.uk (marvin.axion.bt.co.uk [132.146.16.82]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA14226 for ; Thu, 19 Oct 2000 01:19:28 -0700 (PDT) From: graham.travers@bt.com Received: from chqlubnt02.lon.bt.com by marvin (local) with ESMTP; Thu, 19 Oct 2000 09:23:36 +0100 Received: by chqlubnt02.lon.bt.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2652.35) id <4MC6AGH1>; Thu, 19 Oct 2000 09:23:34 +0100 Message-ID: <451D45016C2CD2119DA50000F8FE7F0705D8ECB1@mlngcbnt01.hc.bt.com> To: April.Marine@nominum.com, ietf-weird@imc.org Subject: WIERD Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 09:23:16 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2652.35) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ietf-weird@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Guys, I didn't attend the Adelaide meeting, and there was no WEIRD meeting in Pittsburgh, so I've lost sight of where we are. Before deciding to wrap up the WG, I'd like to see a review of what progress has been made against the list of objectives that we brainstormed for the WG. If they are all achieved, then termination may be the right option ( although I tend to agree with comments that education is a continuing process ); if not, shouldn't we address what remains to be done ? I would prefer such a review to take place on this list, as I find the USWG meetings usually clash with something else that I have to cover ( hence my ususal no-show ). Regards, Graham Travers IP Standards Co-ordinator aexaCT * Tel: +44 1359 235086 * Mobile: 0780 8502536 > * Fax: +44 1359 235087 * HW B279, P.O. Box 200, London, N18 1ZF * - Email: graham.travers@bt.com > -----Original Message----- > From: April Marine [SMTP:April.Marine@nominum.com] > Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2000 7:50 PM > To: WEIRD WG > Subject: San Diego > > So, what do y'all think about meeting in San Diego? > > At the last IETF, I asked for some feedback from USWG re whether they > thought WEIRD should declare its experiment done and close down, or keep > going. The consensus was that many thought WEIRD should keep going. Of > course, WEIRD didn't meet last time, so it's not like actually asking the > WG itself, so I thought I would ask you yourself. > > One thing that Chris and I have talked about is getting a co-chair. Is it > worth conning, uh, drafting someone to assist our WEIRD leader (couldn't > resist that one :-), or do you all feel the WG is a loss? > > Should we schedule a mtg in San Diego to regroup? > > Should we put "WEIRD status" on the USWG agenda? > > Anything we should consider that I haven't? > > Feedback welcome and requested! > > thanks, > April > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > April Marine > Director of Client Services april.marine@nominum.com > Nominum, Inc. +1.650.779.6006 From owner-ietf-weird Thu Oct 19 08:56:25 2000 Received: by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA02858 for ietf-weird-bks; Thu, 19 Oct 2000 08:56:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hilton.cec.wustl.edu (hilton.cec.wustl.edu [128.252.21.4]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA02854 for ; Thu, 19 Oct 2000 08:56:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (bac1@localhost) by hilton.cec.wustl.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA13944; Thu, 19 Oct 2000 11:01:28 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 11:01:28 -0500 (CDT) From: Brian Curtis To: graham.travers@bt.com cc: April.Marine@nominum.com, ietf-weird@imc.org Subject: Re: WIERD In-Reply-To: <451D45016C2CD2119DA50000F8FE7F0705D8ECB1@mlngcbnt01.hc.bt.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ietf-weird@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: remove from this list On Thu, 19 Oct 2000 graham.travers@bt.com wrote: |Guys, | |I didn't attend the Adelaide meeting, and there was no WEIRD meeting in |Pittsburgh, so I've lost sight of where we are. | |Before deciding to wrap up the WG, I'd like to see a review of what progress |has been made against the list of objectives that we brainstormed for the |WG. If they are all achieved, then termination may be the right option ( |although I tend to agree with comments that education is a continuing |process ); if not, shouldn't we address what remains to be done ? | |I would prefer such a review to take place on this list, as I find the USWG |meetings usually clash with something else that I have to cover ( hence my |ususal no-show ). | | |Regards, | |Graham Travers | |IP Standards Co-ordinator aexaCT |* Tel: +44 1359 235086 |* Mobile: 0780 8502536 |> * Fax: +44 1359 235087 |* HW B279, P.O. Box 200, London, N18 1ZF |* - Email: graham.travers@bt.com | | | | |> -----Original Message----- |> From: April Marine [SMTP:April.Marine@nominum.com] |> Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2000 7:50 PM |> To: WEIRD WG |> Subject: San Diego |> |> So, what do y'all think about meeting in San Diego? |> |> At the last IETF, I asked for some feedback from USWG re whether they |> thought WEIRD should declare its experiment done and close down, or keep |> going. The consensus was that many thought WEIRD should keep going. Of |> course, WEIRD didn't meet last time, so it's not like actually asking the |> WG itself, so I thought I would ask you yourself. |> |> One thing that Chris and I have talked about is getting a co-chair. Is it |> worth conning, uh, drafting someone to assist our WEIRD leader (couldn't |> resist that one :-), or do you all feel the WG is a loss? |> |> Should we schedule a mtg in San Diego to regroup? |> |> Should we put "WEIRD status" on the USWG agenda? |> |> Anything we should consider that I haven't? |> |> Feedback welcome and requested! |> |> thanks, |> April |> |> -------------------------------------------------------------------------- |> ---- |> April Marine |> Director of Client Services april.marine@nominum.com |> Nominum, Inc. +1.650.779.6006 | From owner-ietf-weird Thu Oct 19 09:42:56 2000 Received: by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA04096 for ietf-weird-bks; Thu, 19 Oct 2000 09:42:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shell.nominum.com (shell.nominum.com [204.152.187.59]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA04092 for ; Thu, 19 Oct 2000 09:42:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shell.nominum.com (shell.nominum.com [204.152.187.59]) by shell.nominum.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E1AF3190D; Thu, 19 Oct 2000 09:47:56 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 09:47:56 -0700 (PDT) From: April Marine To: graham.travers@bt.com Cc: April.Marine@nominum.com, ietf-weird@imc.org Subject: Re: WIERD In-Reply-To: <451D45016C2CD2119DA50000F8FE7F0705D8ECB1@mlngcbnt01.hc.bt.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ietf-weird@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Graham, Are you planning to be in San Diego? Would you be willing to co-chair the WG for that mtg, at which we should finalize the answers to the very good questions you raise and decide whether to fold or go forward? You seem to have a good grasp of what needs to be done and would be a good colleague with Chris, who knows the history. This wouldn't be a long-term commitment, but I'm wondering if you can help at this particular impasse? (Just as an aside, do you normally react better to whining or bribery as incentive to say yes to a request? :v) thanks! April On Thu, 19 Oct 2000 graham.travers@bt.com wrote: > Guys, > > I didn't attend the Adelaide meeting, and there was no WEIRD meeting in > Pittsburgh, so I've lost sight of where we are. > > Before deciding to wrap up the WG, I'd like to see a review of what progress > has been made against the list of objectives that we brainstormed for the > WG. If they are all achieved, then termination may be the right option ( > although I tend to agree with comments that education is a continuing > process ); if not, shouldn't we address what remains to be done ? > > I would prefer such a review to take place on this list, as I find the USWG > meetings usually clash with something else that I have to cover ( hence my > ususal no-show ). > > > Regards, > > Graham Travers > > IP Standards Co-ordinator aexaCT > * Tel: +44 1359 235086 > * Mobile: 0780 8502536 > > * Fax: +44 1359 235087 > * HW B279, P.O. Box 200, London, N18 1ZF > * - Email: graham.travers@bt.com > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: April Marine [SMTP:April.Marine@nominum.com] > > Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2000 7:50 PM > > To: WEIRD WG > > Subject: San Diego > > > > So, what do y'all think about meeting in San Diego? > > > > At the last IETF, I asked for some feedback from USWG re whether they > > thought WEIRD should declare its experiment done and close down, or keep > > going. The consensus was that many thought WEIRD should keep going. Of > > course, WEIRD didn't meet last time, so it's not like actually asking the > > WG itself, so I thought I would ask you yourself. > > > > One thing that Chris and I have talked about is getting a co-chair. Is it > > worth conning, uh, drafting someone to assist our WEIRD leader (couldn't > > resist that one :-), or do you all feel the WG is a loss? > > > > Should we schedule a mtg in San Diego to regroup? > > > > Should we put "WEIRD status" on the USWG agenda? > > > > Anything we should consider that I haven't? > > > > Feedback welcome and requested! > > > > thanks, > > April > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ---- > > April Marine > > Director of Client Services april.marine@nominum.com > > Nominum, Inc. +1.650.779.6006 > From owner-ietf-weird Thu Oct 19 09:44:00 2000 Received: by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA04131 for ietf-weird-bks; Thu, 19 Oct 2000 09:44:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from marvin.axion.bt.co.uk (marvin.axion.bt.co.uk [132.146.16.82]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA04127 for ; Thu, 19 Oct 2000 09:43:58 -0700 (PDT) From: graham.travers@bt.com Received: from chqlubnt02.lon.bt.com by marvin (local) with ESMTP; Thu, 19 Oct 2000 17:23:37 +0100 Received: by chqlubnt02.lon.bt.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2652.35) id <4MC6BKZS>; Thu, 19 Oct 2000 17:23:34 +0100 Message-ID: <451D45016C2CD2119DA50000F8FE7F0705D8ECC1@mlngcbnt01.hc.bt.com> To: bac1@cec.wustl.edu, graham.travers@bt.com Cc: April.Marine@nominum.com, ietf-weird@imc.org Subject: RE: WIERD Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 17:23:32 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2652.35) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ietf-weird@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Brian, That's too cryptic for me. Can you respond in comprehensible English, please ? Regards, Graham Travers IP Standards Co-ordinator aexaCT * Tel: +44 1359 235086 * Mobile: 0780 8502536 > * Fax: +44 1359 235087 * HW B279, P.O. Box 200, London, N18 1ZF * - Email: graham.travers@bt.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Brian Curtis [SMTP:bac1@cec.wustl.edu] > Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2000 5:01 PM > To: graham.travers@bt.com > Cc: April.Marine@nominum.com; ietf-weird@imc.org > Subject: Re: WIERD > > > remove from this list > > On Thu, 19 Oct 2000 graham.travers@bt.com wrote: > > |Guys, > | > |I didn't attend the Adelaide meeting, and there was no WEIRD meeting in > |Pittsburgh, so I've lost sight of where we are. > | > |Before deciding to wrap up the WG, I'd like to see a review of what > progress > |has been made against the list of objectives that we brainstormed for the > |WG. If they are all achieved, then termination may be the right option ( > |although I tend to agree with comments that education is a continuing > |process ); if not, shouldn't we address what remains to be done ? > | > |I would prefer such a review to take place on this list, as I find the > USWG > |meetings usually clash with something else that I have to cover ( hence > my > |ususal no-show ). > | > | > |Regards, > | > |Graham Travers > | > |IP Standards Co-ordinator aexaCT > |* Tel: +44 1359 235086 > |* Mobile: 0780 8502536 > |> * Fax: +44 1359 235087 > |* HW B279, P.O. Box 200, London, N18 1ZF > |* - Email: graham.travers@bt.com > | > | > | > | > |> -----Original Message----- > |> From: April Marine [SMTP:April.Marine@nominum.com] > |> Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2000 7:50 PM > |> To: WEIRD WG > |> Subject: San Diego > |> > |> So, what do y'all think about meeting in San Diego? > |> > |> At the last IETF, I asked for some feedback from USWG re whether they > |> thought WEIRD should declare its experiment done and close down, or > keep > |> going. The consensus was that many thought WEIRD should keep going. > Of > |> course, WEIRD didn't meet last time, so it's not like actually asking > the > |> WG itself, so I thought I would ask you yourself. > |> > |> One thing that Chris and I have talked about is getting a co-chair. Is > it > |> worth conning, uh, drafting someone to assist our WEIRD leader > (couldn't > |> resist that one :-), or do you all feel the WG is a loss? > |> > |> Should we schedule a mtg in San Diego to regroup? > |> > |> Should we put "WEIRD status" on the USWG agenda? > |> > |> Anything we should consider that I haven't? > |> > |> Feedback welcome and requested! > |> > |> thanks, > |> April > |> > |> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > |> ---- > |> April Marine > |> Director of Client Services > april.marine@nominum.com > |> Nominum, Inc. +1.650.779.6006 > | > > From owner-ietf-weird Thu Oct 19 10:16:13 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA04725 for ietf-weird-bks; Thu, 19 Oct 2000 10:16:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from marvin.axion.bt.co.uk (marvin.axion.bt.co.uk [132.146.16.82]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA04721 for ; Thu, 19 Oct 2000 10:16:11 -0700 (PDT) From: graham.travers@bt.com Received: from cirwm3nt01.nor.bt.com by marvin (local) with ESMTP; Thu, 19 Oct 2000 18:04:33 +0100 Received: by cirwm3nt01.nor.bt.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2652.35) id <41BM5HB5>; Thu, 19 Oct 2000 18:04:30 +0100 Message-ID: <451D45016C2CD2119DA50000F8FE7F0705D8ECC4@mlngcbnt01.hc.bt.com> To: April.Marine@nominum.com, graham.travers@bt.com Cc: ietf-weird@imc.org Subject: RE: WIERD Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 18:04:31 +0100 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2652.35) MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-ietf-weird@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: April, That's what I get for sticking my head above the parapet ! Bribery usually works better, but any sort of attention makes a pleasant change !! I will be in San Diego, but as you can see from my job title below, I'm not a free agent. Despite the fact that we all attend the IETF as individuals, my company has this WIERD idea that I should keep tabs on all the guys that I am paying to attend. And there are some meetings that I have to cover myself. If there is no clash with another of my scheduled sessions, I will attend the WIERD meeting, if there is one. However, I can't commit to anything else at present. I might have a better idea of exactly what I'm doing (that'll make a change), when the IETF agenda is published. Regards, Graham Travers IP Standards Co-ordinator aexaCT * Tel: +44 1359 235086 * Mobile: 0780 8502536 > * Fax: +44 1359 235087 * HW B279, P.O. Box 200, London, N18 1ZF * - Email: graham.travers@bt.com > -----Original Message----- > From: April Marine [SMTP:April.Marine@nominum.com] > Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2000 5:48 PM > To: graham.travers@bt.com > Cc: April.Marine@nominum.com; ietf-weird@imc.org > Subject: Re: WIERD > > Graham, > > Are you planning to be in San Diego? Would you be willing to co-chair the > WG for that mtg, at which we should finalize the answers to the very good > questions you raise and decide whether to fold or go forward? You seem to > have a good grasp of what needs to be done and would be a good colleague > with Chris, who knows the history. This wouldn't be a long-term > commitment, but I'm wondering if you can help at this particular impasse? > > (Just as an aside, do you normally react better to whining or bribery as > incentive to say yes to a request? :v) > > thanks! > April > > On Thu, 19 Oct 2000 graham.travers@bt.com wrote: > > > Guys, > > > > I didn't attend the Adelaide meeting, and there was no WEIRD meeting in > > Pittsburgh, so I've lost sight of where we are. > > > > Before deciding to wrap up the WG, I'd like to see a review of what > progress > > has been made against the list of objectives that we brainstormed for > the > > WG. If they are all achieved, then termination may be the right option > ( > > although I tend to agree with comments that education is a continuing > > process ); if not, shouldn't we address what remains to be done ? > > > > I would prefer such a review to take place on this list, as I find the > USWG > > meetings usually clash with something else that I have to cover ( hence > my > > ususal no-show ). > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Graham Travers > > > > IP Standards Co-ordinator aexaCT > > * Tel: +44 1359 235086 > > * Mobile: 0780 8502536 > > > * Fax: +44 1359 235087 > > * HW B279, P.O. Box 200, London, N18 1ZF > > * - Email: graham.travers@bt.com > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: April Marine [SMTP:April.Marine@nominum.com] > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2000 7:50 PM > > > To: WEIRD WG > > > Subject: San Diego > > > > > > So, what do y'all think about meeting in San Diego? > > > > > > At the last IETF, I asked for some feedback from USWG re whether they > > > thought WEIRD should declare its experiment done and close down, or > keep > > > going. The consensus was that many thought WEIRD should keep going. > Of > > > course, WEIRD didn't meet last time, so it's not like actually asking > the > > > WG itself, so I thought I would ask you yourself. > > > > > > One thing that Chris and I have talked about is getting a co-chair. > Is it > > > worth conning, uh, drafting someone to assist our WEIRD leader > (couldn't > > > resist that one :-), or do you all feel the WG is a loss? > > > > > > Should we schedule a mtg in San Diego to regroup? > > > > > > Should we put "WEIRD status" on the USWG agenda? > > > > > > Anything we should consider that I haven't? > > > > > > Feedback welcome and requested! > > > > > > thanks, > > > April > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > ---- > > > April Marine > > > Director of Client Services > april.marine@nominum.com > > > Nominum, Inc. +1.650.779.6006 > > From owner-ietf-weird Thu Oct 19 10:17:27 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA04754 for ietf-weird-bks; Thu, 19 Oct 2000 10:17:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shell.nominum.com (shell.nominum.com [204.152.187.59]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA04750 for ; Thu, 19 Oct 2000 10:17:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shell.nominum.com (shell.nominum.com [204.152.187.59]) by shell.nominum.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 769E73190F; Thu, 19 Oct 2000 10:22:27 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 10:22:27 -0700 (PDT) From: April Marine To: graham.travers@bt.com Cc: April.Marine@nominum.com, ietf-weird@imc.org Subject: RE: WIERD In-Reply-To: <451D45016C2CD2119DA50000F8FE7F0705D8ECC4@mlngcbnt01.hc.bt.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ietf-weird@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Well, that's kinda why I asked. If you were willing to help chair, we would schedule it not to conflict with whatever you want to avoid. Or at least try to. I.e. we have the opportunity to affect the agenda now. :-) evilly yours, A. On Thu, 19 Oct 2000 graham.travers@bt.com wrote: > April, > > That's what I get for sticking my head above the parapet ! Bribery usually > works better, but any sort of attention makes a pleasant change !! > > I will be in San Diego, but as you can see from my job title below, I'm not > a free agent. Despite the fact that we all attend the IETF as individuals, > my company has this WIERD idea that I should keep tabs on all the guys that > I am paying to attend. And there are some meetings that I have to cover > myself. > > If there is no clash with another of my scheduled sessions, I will attend > the WIERD meeting, if there is one. However, I can't commit to anything > else at present. I might have a better idea of exactly what I'm doing > (that'll make a change), when the IETF agenda is published. > > Regards, > > Graham Travers > > IP Standards Co-ordinator aexaCT > * Tel: +44 1359 235086 > * Mobile: 0780 8502536 > > * Fax: +44 1359 235087 > * HW B279, P.O. Box 200, London, N18 1ZF > * - Email: graham.travers@bt.com > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: April Marine [SMTP:April.Marine@nominum.com] > > Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2000 5:48 PM > > To: graham.travers@bt.com > > Cc: April.Marine@nominum.com; ietf-weird@imc.org > > Subject: Re: WIERD > > > > Graham, > > > > Are you planning to be in San Diego? Would you be willing to co-chair the > > WG for that mtg, at which we should finalize the answers to the very good > > questions you raise and decide whether to fold or go forward? You seem to > > have a good grasp of what needs to be done and would be a good colleague > > with Chris, who knows the history. This wouldn't be a long-term > > commitment, but I'm wondering if you can help at this particular impasse? > > > > (Just as an aside, do you normally react better to whining or bribery as > > incentive to say yes to a request? :v) > > > > thanks! > > April > > > > On Thu, 19 Oct 2000 graham.travers@bt.com wrote: > > > > > Guys, > > > > > > I didn't attend the Adelaide meeting, and there was no WEIRD meeting in > > > Pittsburgh, so I've lost sight of where we are. > > > > > > Before deciding to wrap up the WG, I'd like to see a review of what > > progress > > > has been made against the list of objectives that we brainstormed for > > the > > > WG. If they are all achieved, then termination may be the right option > > ( > > > although I tend to agree with comments that education is a continuing > > > process ); if not, shouldn't we address what remains to be done ? > > > > > > I would prefer such a review to take place on this list, as I find the > > USWG > > > meetings usually clash with something else that I have to cover ( hence > > my > > > ususal no-show ). > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Graham Travers > > > > > > IP Standards Co-ordinator aexaCT > > > * Tel: +44 1359 235086 > > > * Mobile: 0780 8502536 > > > > * Fax: +44 1359 235087 > > > * HW B279, P.O. Box 200, London, N18 1ZF > > > * - Email: graham.travers@bt.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: April Marine [SMTP:April.Marine@nominum.com] > > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2000 7:50 PM > > > > To: WEIRD WG > > > > Subject: San Diego > > > > > > > > So, what do y'all think about meeting in San Diego? > > > > > > > > At the last IETF, I asked for some feedback from USWG re whether they > > > > thought WEIRD should declare its experiment done and close down, or > > keep > > > > going. The consensus was that many thought WEIRD should keep going. > > Of > > > > course, WEIRD didn't meet last time, so it's not like actually asking > > the > > > > WG itself, so I thought I would ask you yourself. > > > > > > > > One thing that Chris and I have talked about is getting a co-chair. > > Is it > > > > worth conning, uh, drafting someone to assist our WEIRD leader > > (couldn't > > > > resist that one :-), or do you all feel the WG is a loss? > > > > > > > > Should we schedule a mtg in San Diego to regroup? > > > > > > > > Should we put "WEIRD status" on the USWG agenda? > > > > > > > > Anything we should consider that I haven't? > > > > > > > > Feedback welcome and requested! > > > > > > > > thanks, > > > > April > > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > ---- > > > > April Marine > > > > Director of Client Services > > april.marine@nominum.com > > > > Nominum, Inc. +1.650.779.6006 > > > > From owner-ietf-weird Fri Nov 3 07:30:19 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA01339 for ietf-weird-bks; Fri, 3 Nov 2000 07:30:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from mainserver.ps.gov.cn ([210.74.122.144]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA01333 for ; Fri, 3 Nov 2000 07:30:16 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 07:30:16 -0800 (PST) From: hv@of-hachetal.de Message-Id: <200011031530.HAA01333@ns.secondary.com> Received: from 1Cust239.tnt2.mia5.da.uu.net by mainserver.ps.gov.cn with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.0.1457.7) id SXP0MWL7; Fri, 3 Nov 2000 23:03:42 +0800 To: hv@of-hachetal.de Subject: At last, Herbal V, the all natural alternative to V----A! 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Name ___________________________________________________ Address _________________________________________________ City ____________________________________________________ State ___________________________________________________ Zip _____________________________________________________ E-mail __________________________________________________ Signature _________________________________________________ [ required for check and credit card orders] Toll Free FAX Order Line: 1-800-940-6590 If faxing in your order, please state whether you require a fax, email, or no confirmation at all. Allow up to one day for confirmation, if requested. FAX orders are processed immediately. Or, print & mail to: LSN 3502 N. Powerline Rd. #525 Pompano Beach, FL 33069 ______________________________________________________ *CHECK BY FAX ORDERS: Complete the check as normal. Tape the check in the area below. Below the check, clearly write the check number, all numbers at the bottom of the check, & your name. Tape the check below and fax the check to the toll free FAX number above. Void the check. Our merchant will electronically debit your account for the amount of the check; your reference number for this transaction will be your check number. Nothing could be safer & easier ! TAPE CHECK BELOW _____________________________________________________________ This is a one time mailing: Removal is automatic and no further contact is necessary. Please Note: Herbal V is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease. As individuals differ, so will results. Herbal V helps provide herbal and nutritional support for male sexual performance. The FDA has not evaluated these statements. For details about our double your money back guarantee, please write to the above address, attention consumer affairs department; enclose a self addressed stamped envelope for this and any requested contact information. Thank You. From owner-ietf-weird Sat Nov 4 06:44:17 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA16839 for ietf-weird-bks; Sat, 4 Nov 2000 06:44:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from mainserver.ps.gov.cn ([210.74.122.144]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA16833 for ; Sat, 4 Nov 2000 06:44:14 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2000 06:44:14 -0800 (PST) From: hv@of-hachetal.de Message-Id: <200011041444.GAA16833@ns.secondary.com> Received: from 1Cust239.tnt2.mia5.da.uu.net by mainserver.ps.gov.cn with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.0.1457.7) id SXP0MWL7; Fri, 3 Nov 2000 23:03:42 +0800 To: hv@of-hachetal.de Subject: At last, Herbal V, the all natural alternative to V----A! Sender: owner-ietf-weird@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Herbal V: An Incredible All-Natural Healthy Alternative Herbal V is the All Natural Approach to Male Virility, Vitality and Pleasure. Available N o w ! Welcome to the New Sexual Revolution. It's the all natural male potency and pleasure pill that men everywhere are buzzing about. Herbal V is safe, natural and specifically formulated to help support male sexual function and pleasure. You just take two easy-to-swallow tablets one hour before sex. And there's more great news - you can get Herbal V for less than $1 a pill. Amazing word of mouth praise on Herbal V has been spreading like wildfire-already over 1,500,000 men have chosen Herbal V. Since it is 100% natural you will never have to worry about safety. Try doctor-recommended Herbal V today and have the greatest night of your life! Herbal V... Bringing Back the Magic! 1,585,000 men can't be wrong. To date over 1 million men have tried the super supplement Herbal V. Here is why: No Doctor Visit Required Available Over the Counter Not a Drug 100% Natural Safe, No Worries Highest Quality Pharmaceutical-Grade Pure Nutriceuticals Guaranteed Potency & Purity Be a Real Man Again! Questions and Answers What is Herbal V? Herbal V is a proprietary blend that was specifically developed as a safe alternative for men who prefer an all-natural approach to address impotence and boost sexual performance. This amazing formula first became popular with Hollywood insiders and the wealthy elite. They were maximizing their sex lives, long before it was available to the general public. How does Herbal V work? Developed by a team whose goal was to create the perfect all-natural aphrodisiac. Herbal V is the result of that remarkable effort. The Herbal V formula contains a precise blend of cutting edge pro-sexual nutrients from around the world that provide nutritional support, making it possible for a man to have a pleasurable sexual experience. What can Herbal V do for me? Herbal V helps support male sexual function and pleasure in a safe and natural manner. Simply put, it can make your sex life incredible. Is Herbal V Safe? One of the great things about Herbal V is that it is not a drug. It is an incredible herbal dietary supplement that provides nutritional support for male sexual function and pleasure. One of the most comforting features of Herbal V is that you never have to worry about safety. Herbal V: Safe - Natural - Exciting Many have speculated that because Herbal V is so popular with men, it must contain prescription drugs or chemical components. Herbal V does not contain any elements or traces of any prescription drug. Herbal V is made using the world's most technologically advanced state-of-the-art cold processing equipment to ensure maximum purity. Herbal V has been independently analyzed by the nation's premier testing facility to ensure purity, quality and to end the rumors that, because it is so popular, it must somehow be chemical. It is not. Herbal V is natural - just as it says on the label. Herbal V is simply fantastic! Herbal V: Ingredients Yohimbe, saw palmetto, avena sativa, androstenedione, guarana, taurine, siberian ginseng, tribulus terrestris. Tribulus Terrestis is certified to enhanced testosterone levels by increasing Luteinzing hormone (LH) levels. Androstenedione which is a precursor to testosterone unlocks bound testosterone and makes it biologically active again quickly. This means a dramatic surge in desire. Avena Sativa Stimulates the neurotransmitter pleasure centers to maximum capacity. This greatly intensifies pleasure. Just listen to what Herbal V has done for the sex lives of people like you! “On a scale of 1 to 10, it's a 15. Electrifying. It's like a wonder pill!” — Justin Q B., New Haven, Texas “I haven't had sexual relations in 11 years. Then with Herbal V it was... wow! It works again!” — Sid R., Lakeland, Florida “I had sex four times in one night. It made me feel like a 19-year-old again.” — Chip S, Beech Mountain, North Carolina “Herbal V has turned my husband into a Sexual Superman! I like the fact that it's all natural and has no side effects. It's bringing back the good old days.” — Jennifer B, Beverly Hills, California The above testimonials are from product literature, and we have not independently verified them. However, the following testimonial is from a "senior" gentleman who has purchased his second bottle of Herbal V. When we heard his words with our own ears, we asked his permission to print them here. “Man! I'm wild as I can be! I feel like I'm 25 years old again! I'm not believing this!” — Mr. Murphy, age 64, Lampart, IL. Risk Free: Double Your Money Back Guarantee If Herbal V does not give the desired results as stated above, simply return the unused portion for a double-your money back refund. No questions asked ! Order Now: Safe, Fast, Secure, Private Herbal V with its DOUBLE YOUR MONEY BACK GUARANTEE is available only through this special promotional offer. Herbal V arrives in plain packaging for your privacy. Any and all information is kept strictly confidential. Payment Methods You may FAX or Postal Mail Checks, MasterCard, Visa, & American Express.payments. Money Orders are accepted only by Postal Mail. Each bottle of Herbal V contains 30 tablets, approximately a 1 month supply. Step 1: Place a check by your desired quanity. ______ 1 Bottle of Herbal V $28 ______ 2 Bottles of Herbal V $48 ______ 3 Bottles of Herbal V $59 Please add $6 shipping and handling for any size order. [ Total cost including shipping & handling, 1 bottle=$34, 2 bottles=$54, 3 bottles=$65 ] International Orders Please add $16 shipping and handling for any size order. [ Total cost including shipping & handling, 1 bottle=$40, 2 bottles=$60, 3 bottles=$75 ] We cannot accept foreign checks. International money orders or credit cards only. Step 2: Place a check by your desired payment method and complete fields if necessary. _____Check or CHECK-BY-FAX [details below] _____Money Order _____American Express Account Number__________________ Exp____/____ _____Visa Account Number__________________ Exp____/____ _____MasterCard Account Number__________________ Exp____/____ Please make your check or money order payable to "Lion Sciences National". Step 3: Please complete and print the following fields clearly. Name ___________________________________________________ Address _________________________________________________ City ____________________________________________________ State ___________________________________________________ Zip _____________________________________________________ E-mail __________________________________________________ Signature _________________________________________________ [ required for check and credit card orders] Toll Free FAX Order Line: 1-800-940-6590 If faxing in your order, please state whether you require a fax, email, or no confirmation at all. Allow up to one day for confirmation, if requested. FAX orders are processed immediately. Or, print & mail to: LSN 3502 N. Powerline Rd. #525 Pompano Beach, FL 33069 ______________________________________________________ *CHECK BY FAX ORDERS: Complete the check as normal. Tape the check in the area below. Below the check, clearly write the check number, all numbers at the bottom of the check, & your name. Tape the check below and fax the check to the toll free FAX number above. Void the check. Our merchant will electronically debit your account for the amount of the check; your reference number for this transaction will be your check number. Nothing could be safer & easier ! TAPE CHECK BELOW _____________________________________________________________ This is a one time mailing: Removal is automatic and no further contact is necessary. Please Note: Herbal V is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease. As individuals differ, so will results. Herbal V helps provide herbal and nutritional support for male sexual performance. The FDA has not evaluated these statements. For details about our double your money back guarantee, please write to the above address, attention consumer affairs department; enclose a self addressed stamped envelope for this and any requested contact information. Thank You. From owner-ietf-weird Thu Nov 30 16:22:52 2000 Received: by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA26651 for ietf-weird-bks; Thu, 30 Nov 2000 16:22:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from motgate.mot.com (motgate.mot.com [129.188.136.100]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA26646 for ; Thu, 30 Nov 2000 16:22:50 -0800 (PST) Received: [from pobox3.mot.com (pobox3.mot.com [10.64.251.242]) by motgate.mot.com (motgate 2.1) with ESMTP id RAA13461 for ; Thu, 30 Nov 2000 17:24:28 -0700 (MST)] Received: [from il06exb01.corp.mot.com (il06exb01.corp.mot.com [199.5.78.83]) by pobox3.mot.com (MOT-pobox3 2.0) with ESMTP id RAA16414 for ; Thu, 30 Nov 2000 17:21:42 -0700 (MST)] Received: by il06exb01.corp.mot.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2651.58) id ; Thu, 30 Nov 2000 18:24:27 -0600 Message-ID: <034D8B328BD3D311BDC0009027E33C17023C855A@il06exm22.corp.mot.com> From: Burke Chris-CCB007 To: ietf-weird@imc.org Subject: IETF 49th WEIRD WG Agenda Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 18:24:27 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2651.58) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ietf-weird@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Agenda for 49th IETF meeting of Web Elucidation of Internet-Related Developments (WEIRD) WG; Thursday, December 14, 3:30 - 5:30 PM, Seabreeze room - check official IETF agenda for any last-minute changes. 5 min: Introduction 15 min: Review of Progress Against WG Objectives 90 min: Discussion - Next Steps / Future WG Actions Regards, Chris Burke WEIRD Chairman From owner-ietf-weird Thu Nov 30 16:26:14 2000 Received: by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA26735 for ietf-weird-bks; Thu, 30 Nov 2000 16:26:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from motgate.mot.com (motgate.mot.com [129.188.136.100]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA26731 for ; Thu, 30 Nov 2000 16:26:13 -0800 (PST) Received: [from pobox3.mot.com (pobox3.mot.com [10.64.251.242]) by motgate.mot.com (motgate 2.1) with ESMTP id RAA15814 for ; Thu, 30 Nov 2000 17:27:51 -0700 (MST)] Received: [from il06exw10.corp.mot.com (il06exw10.corp.mot.com [199.5.78.81]) by pobox3.mot.com (MOT-pobox3 2.0) with ESMTP id RAA17423 for ; Thu, 30 Nov 2000 17:25:05 -0700 (MST)] Received: by il06exw10.corp.mot.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2651.58) id ; Thu, 30 Nov 2000 18:27:50 -0600 Message-ID: <034D8B328BD3D311BDC0009027E33C17023C855C@il06exm22.corp.mot.com> From: Burke Chris-CCB007 To: "'ietf-weird@imc.org'" Subject: Anybody Feel Like Writing a BOF Guide for IETF 49? Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 18:27:41 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2651.58) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ietf-weird@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: This was popular last time we did it. There are some interesting BOFs at San Diego. Not much time left to write one, but I'll chip in if others are interested. Chris From owner-ietf-weird Mon Dec 4 15:16:56 2000 Received: by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA03012 for ietf-weird-bks; Mon, 4 Dec 2000 15:16:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.winealley.com (IDENT:qmailr@mail.winealley.com [194.3.190.130]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA03006 for ; Mon, 4 Dec 2000 15:16:54 -0800 (PST) From: francois.xavier.bodin@winealley.com Message-Id: <200012042316.PAA03006@ns.secondary.com> Received: (qmail 30824 invoked from network); 4 Dec 2000 23:18:51 -0000 Received: from mail.winealley.com (HELO localhost) (chins@194.3.190.130) by mail.winealley.com with SMTP; 4 Dec 2000 23:18:51 -0000 Subject: Meet us on Wine Alley Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Mime-version: 1.0 To: ietf-weird@imc.org Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 00:18 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ns.secondary.com id PAA03009 Sender: owner-ietf-weird@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Hello! I found your address on a site about wine, food and good living. I thought that you will be interested by the services that our site offers. www.wine-alley.com is a virtual Club for all those interested in wine in both a professional and personal capacity. We now have more than 3900 members, both amateur and in the trade who use our site to discuss wine, buy and sell it and tell us about the best sources. Club members use the Newsgroup of www.wine-alley.com to exchange information and experiences. Only the other day someone asked how much a certain rare wine was worth, I asked for more information about the grape variety, which doesn't grow in France. Currently there have been more than 711 questions and replies. There is also the small ads. column. Among the 6 adverts placed this week there have been some really good deals including a magnum of 1945 Pichon Lalande and a 1947 Cheval blanc! Let me make it clear - www.wine-alley.com itself does not sell or buy wine: we simply offer our members the facilites for making their own arrangements. www.wine-alley.com is also a site supplying information in real time, particularly the latest news from winegrowers and makers via the French Press Agency (AFP). We also have a database of more than 21,000 wines with information supplied directly to the site by winegrowers co-operatives and specialist magazines. I should be delighted if you would come and join us. At www.wine-alley.com you will find similarly-minded people who just want to share their love of wine. Kind regards François Xavier Bodin, Manager of the Online Club fx.bodin@winealley.com PS. Registering with the www.wine-alley.com club is absolutely free and commits you to nothing. If you are not interested in my offer, please excuse this letter; I am sorry to have bothered you. To prevent further unwanted intrusions please click on the following link, your email will be automatically removed from our list. http://www.wine-alley.com/wines/desmail.asp?id=291671&l=uk From owner-ietf-weird Tue Dec 5 18:08:06 2000 Received: by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA07971 for ietf-weird-bks; Tue, 5 Dec 2000 18:08:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from kr.qrio.com ([211.40.177.24]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA07966 for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2000 18:08:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail4 (mail4 [211.40.177.24] (may be forged)) by kr.qrio.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA04876 for ; Wed, 6 Dec 2000 11:10:04 +0900 Message-Id: <200012060210.LAA04876@kr.qrio.com> From: "ÃÖÀç¿í " To: ietf-weird@imc.org Cc: Subject: want to enter Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 11:10:06 +0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Qrio-Source-Device: Email X-Qrio-Target-Device: Email X-Qrio-MsgType: Normal Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from base64 to 8bit by ns.secondary.com id SAA07967 Sender: owner-ietf-weird@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Hello! I want to enter this group and receive your latest news. ================³» ¸íÇÔ====================================== ¡º¼¼»ódz°æÁß¿¡¼­ Á¦ÀÏ ¾Æ¸§´Ù¿î dz°æ..¸ðµç°ÍµéÀÌ Á¦ÀÚ¸®·Î µ¹¾Æ¿À´Â dz°æ....dz°æ...dz°æ...¡» ¢Î:011-327-8480 ¢Ý ¢ÑȨÆäÁã:http://i.am/jwook ¿Ü¿ö ¢¿À½¼º¸ÞÀÏÀ» º¸³»½Ç ºÐµéÀº 02-6008-9991À» ´©¸£½ÅÈÄ È®Àå¹øÈ£¸¦ ¹°À¸¸é 8480À» ´©¸£°í ¸»À» ÇÏ¸é µË´Ï´Ù.. --------------------------------------------------------------- ¸ÞÀÏÀÌ º¯ÇØ¾ß »ýÈ°ÀÌ º¯ÇÑ´Ù, Å¥¸®¿À http://www.kr.Qrio.com From owner-ietf-weird Wed Dec 6 20:57:55 2000 Received: by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA23414 for ietf-weird-bks; Wed, 6 Dec 2000 20:57:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from bsd.gymparnr.sk (bsd.gymparnr.sk [195.168.176.67]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA23383 for ; Wed, 6 Dec 2000 20:57:51 -0800 (PST) From: hjghjgjh@yahoo.com Received: (qmail 16771 invoked from network); 6 Dec 2000 00:18:20 -0000 Received: from 1cust62.tnt1.los-angeles.ca.da.uu.net (HELO ng1e7BrZ3?) (63.57.183.62) by bsd.gymparnr.sk with SMTP; 6 Dec 2000 00:18:20 -0000 DATE: 05 Dec 00 4:37:56 PM Message-ID: SUBJECT: 1+1=2 Sender: owner-ietf-weird@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: The Internet's Finest and Most Reliable Bulk Email Provider! Since 1996, Tech Data Technologies has provided bulk email service to thousands of well-satisfied customers. We offer the most competitive prices in the industry, made possible by our high percentage of repeat business. We have the most advanced, direct email technology, employed by only a knowledgeable few in the world. Our expert programmers have made it possible for us to penetrate any email blocking filter in use. We have over 120 million active email addresses, increasing our list at the rate of half a million to one million a month. We will put your product or service instantly and directly into the hands of millions of prospects! 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From owner-ietf-weird Sat Dec 9 09:12:58 2000 Received: by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA17757 for ietf-weird-bks; Sat, 9 Dec 2000 09:12:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from nt1.rocori.k12.mn.us (nt1.rocori.k12.mn.us [207.229.251.2]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA17753; Sat, 9 Dec 2000 09:12:51 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <200012091712.JAA17753@ns.secondary.com> From: Mail Sender To: ietf-trade@lists.eListX.com CC: ietf-trade-request@lists.eListX.com, ietf-web@ietf.org, ietf-weird@imc.org, ietf-weird-request@imc.org, ifets-discuss@LISTSERV.READADP.COM Subject: Russian Goods and Service from Moscow Reply-To: mailsender@mailsender.ru Date: 09.12.2000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-ietf-weird@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: www.rusgoods.com www.rusgoods.ru ================================================================ We present you the production of the 1-st Moscow Watch Factory "Poljot" (Flying). 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Here you can receive or order: The information about any enterprise, firm, organization, or person in Russia The production or any goods of Russian manufactories, and other things if it is possible. =============================================================== www.rusgoods.com www.rusgoods.ru From owner-ietf-weird Tue Dec 19 14:50:17 2000 Received: by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA06497 for ietf-weird-bks; Tue, 19 Dec 2000 14:50:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from LindaleUSA.com (pppoe0338.lr.centurytel.net [64.91.13.212]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA06490 for ; Tue, 19 Dec 2000 14:50:14 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 14:50:14 -0800 (PST) From: Linda&Dale@LindaleUSA.com Message-Id: <200012192250.OAA06490@ns.secondary.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=200012191751=" To: ietf-weird@imc.org X-Mailer: 1970AF60.50F36FDF.db562f80b28d8d0ea037d5a2636d3c8a Subject: FREE Catalog Organization: Lindale USA Sender: owner-ietf-weird@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: --=200012191751= Content-Type: text/plain;charset=US-ASCII Happy Holidays from Linda and Dale! 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If your email address has been given to us by mistake or if you have received this email offer by mistake, please click here to be automatically removed from our list... remove@wholesalespecialties.com --=200012191751=-- From owner-ietf-weird Tue Dec 19 19:59:27 2000 Received: by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA12308 for ietf-weird-bks; Tue, 19 Dec 2000 19:59:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from merchantsystems.com (pppoe0118.lr.centurytel.net [209.206.192.55]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA12300 for ; Tue, 19 Dec 2000 19:59:25 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 19:59:25 -0800 (PST) From: carlgroh@merchantsystems.com Message-Id: <200012200359.TAA12300@ns.secondary.com> To: ietf-weird@imc.org X-Mailer: 388C8772.5C411AAF.53b57b223a5bbb737c5b9be8246c9ab1 Subject: Don't Get Ripped Off! Organization: Sender: owner-ietf-weird@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: I'm sure... If my competitors get a hold of this letter, I might as well move out of the country! Let me explain. I'm in the business of setting people up to do business on the Internet. As you probably know, there's only a few things that you actually need to accomplish this.... 1. Something to sell 2. A working website 3. Traffic to the website 4. A way for people to pay you over the net. Here's my point. While my competitors are charging anywhere from $695 to a few thousand to get people set up to do business on the net, my company does it all for -- a one time -- complete price of $195! Maybe that's the reason we currently have over 180,000 clients using our services. (We list a large number of them on our website). The $195 includes everything... Your own Domain (website), Free website hosting unlimited email accounts, autoresponders, shopping cart system, online credit card acceptace (processing) system, Internet merchant account, Free software that creates your website, Free instructions on getting traffic to your website, and many other Free tools to neumerous to list in a short email message. Anyway, If you've been thinking about selling online, but thought it was too expensive or complicated or too confusing, you've been paying to much attention to my competitors. If you're interested and want to find out more, It's very simple to do. Simply call my office -- toll free -- 888-269-7960 and I'll be glad to explain everything to you in detail. Just be aware, that I might be on the phone helping someone else out. So kindly leave a message and I'll get right back to you. If you're not interested, just delete this message. You'll never hear from me again. I guarantee it! 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From owner-ietf-weird Tue Jan 9 16:33:55 2001 Received: by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA04763 for ietf-weird-bks; Tue, 9 Jan 2001 16:33:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from shell.nominum.com (shell.nominum.com [204.152.187.59]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA04759 for ; Tue, 9 Jan 2001 16:33:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from shell.nominum.com (shell.nominum.com [204.152.187.59]) by shell.nominum.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA0693190C; Tue, 9 Jan 2001 16:38:38 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 16:38:38 -0800 (PST) From: April Marine To: Cc: WEIRD WG Subject: Minutes for Web Elucidation of Internet-Related Developments (weird) (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by ns.secondary.com id QAA04760 Sender: owner-ietf-weird@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: sorry--thought these were in already...thanks to Walt ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 09:32:59 -0500 From: Walter Houser To: April Marine Cc: Christopher Burke Subject: Minutes for Web Elucidation of Internet-Related Developments (weird) Web Elucidation of Internet-Related Developments (weird) Chair: Christopher Burke User Services Area Director(s): April Marine Mailing Lists: General Discussion:ietf-weird@imc.org To Subscribe: ietf-weird-request@imc.org In Body: subscribe Archive: http://www.imc.org/ietf-weird/ Chair for this session: April Marine Minutes: Walt Houser Chris Burke contacted April to say that he would be unable to make the meeting. April proposed a one-line agenda: To Be or Not to Be. It was accepted. Susan Harris and Walt Houser had attended before. The other two participants were new to the WG. WEIRD was always an experimental group. What is the scope of the group? It is intended to explain the IETF to the general public and those who are considering coming to the IETF for the first time. Should it alert IETFers to the status of major developments? This would be a difficult task that in some measure duplicates the role of the trade press. It also requires considerable effort from knowledgeable authors. For example, instant messaging is a hot topic that WEIRD could summarize. IM got wedged and split into three groups. The situation is highly volatile. Before putting a discussion of this sensitive situation on the IETF web pages, we would need to consult with the involved parties. The scope is potentially the entire IETF and its activities. Those new to the IETF don’t tend to read RFCs, but they will read web pages. Should we do a use-case analysis to get a better understanding of the possible audiences for WEIRD web pages? Should we review the emails from the public? Finally, should we continue or not? We have an audience and a medium, but not content. Should we have a standing WG to cover IETF activities? Firms and organizations are willing to send people to produce standards and protocols in order to make or buy products. But they are less likely to pay for online news summaries. Other WEIRD like activities we could pursue: · IETF FAQ? · Funny RFCs. · BOF Overviews. · Help mail list to answer general questions about the IETF. We concluded we could put this work into USWG, as WEIRD does not have the momentum. We reached the consensus that WEIRD should be shut down. Thanks, Walt Houser Implementing Section 508 of the Rehabilitation Act http://www.cpcug.org/user/houser/section508/index.html CPCUG Training Calendar at http://cpcug.org/user/houser/calendar/calendar.pl Teach yourself cool web stuff at http://cpcug.org/user/houser/ From owner-ietf-weird Tue Jan 16 20:28:07 2001 Received: by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA12655 for ietf-weird-bks; Tue, 16 Jan 2001 20:28:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from webserver.onlineevents.com.au ([203.111.80.201]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA12650; Tue, 16 Jan 2001 20:28:03 -0800 (PST) From: bk12bk27@yahoo.com Received: from max1-34.losangeles.corecomm.net by webserver.onlineevents.com.au with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.0.1459.44) id C0CGL63N; Wed, 17 Jan 2001 14:55:23 +1100 DATE: 16 Jan 01 6:45:34 PM Message-ID: SUBJECT: RE; THANK YOU Sender: owner-ietf-weird@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Dear Friend and Partner, Think of all the things you could do if you had more free time and money wasn't an object What kind of car would you be driving? 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From owner-ietf-weird Mon Jan 22 16:52:29 2001 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA21840 for ietf-weird-bks; Mon, 22 Jan 2001 16:52:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from cins.hanyang.ac.kr ([166.104.204.187]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA21626; Mon, 22 Jan 2001 16:47:24 -0800 (PST) From: emed22@libero.it Received: by cins.hanyang.ac.kr id JAA305538; Tue, 23 Jan 2001 09:27:53 +0900 (KST) Subject: Obtain Biotech IPOs! 13 Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 19:51:16 Message-Id: <53.644352.589899@unknown> Reply-To: emed22@libero.it Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by cins.hanyang.ac.kr id JAA305538 Sender: owner-ietf-weird@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe:

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bGljaXRlZCBjb21tZXJjaWFsIGVtYWlsLCBpbmNsdWRpbmcgdGhlIHByb3Zpc2lvbiBvZg0K PGJyPmNvbnRhY3QgaW5mb3JtYXRpb24gZm9yIG91ciBjb21wYW55IHdpdGhpbiB0aGlzIGVt YWlsLCBhDQo8YnI+dmFsaWQgcmV0dXJuIGVtYWlsIGFkZHJlc3MsIGFuZCBhIHdheSBmb3Ig Y3VzdG9tZXJzDQo8YnI+dG8gcmVtb3ZlIHRoZW1zZWx2ZXMuJm5ic3A7IFBsZWFzZSBub3Rl LCBob3dldmVyLCB0aGF0IG91cg0KPGJyPmVtYWlsIGFkZHJlc3Mgd2FzIHZhbGlkIGF0IHRo ZSB0aW1lIG9mIHNlbmRpbmcsIGJ1dCBtYXkNCjxicj5iZSBjYW5jZWxsZWQgYnkgdGhlIElT UCBzaG9ydGx5IHRoZXJlYWZ0ZXIgZHVlIHRvIG91cg0KPGJyPnVzZSBvZiB1bnNvbGljaXRl ZCBlbWFpbC4mbmJzcDsgWW91IGNhbiByZWFkIGFib3V0IHRoZSB2YXJpb3VzDQo8YnI+bGF3 cyBnb3Zlcm5pbmcgdW5zb2xpY2l0ZWQgZW1haWw6IGh0dHA6Ly9zcGFtbGF3cy5jb20NCjxi cj4iVW5zb2xpY2l0ZWQgY29tbWVyY2lhbCBlbGVjdHJvbmljIG1haWwgY2FuIGJlIGFuIGlt cG9ydGFudA0KPGJyPm1lY2hhbmlzbSB0aHJvdWdoIHdoaWNoIGJ1c2luZXNzZXMgYWR2ZXJ0 aXNlIGFuZCBhdHRyYWN0DQo8YnI+Y3VzdG9tZXJzIGluIHRoZSBvbmxpbmUgZW52aXJvbm1l bnQuIiZuYnNwOyAtLSBVLlMuIENvbmdyZXNzLA0KPGJyPkguUi4gMTA2dGggQ09OR1JFU1Mg MmQgU2Vzc2lvbiBILiBSLiAzMTEzIFNlYy4gMiAoYSkzIEp1bHkNCjxicj4xOSwgMjAwMCBo dHRwOi8vd3d3LnNwYW1sYXdzLmNvbS9mZWRlcmFsL2hyMzExMy5odG1sDQo8YnI+KioqKioq KioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioN Cjxicj4mbmJzcDsNCjxicj4mbmJzcDsNCjwvYm9keT4NCjwvaHRtbD4NCg== ------=_NextPart_000_001__10618077_51917.11-- From owner-ietf-weird Sat Feb 3 18:28:12 2001 Received: by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA12364 for ietf-weird-bks; Sat, 3 Feb 2001 18:28:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.hosokawa.co.jp (IDENT:qmailr@[202.229.20.29]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA12360 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 2001 18:28:10 -0800 (PST) From: bigjoe@japan.com Received: (qmail 21557 invoked from network); 3 Feb 2001 18:32:59 -0000 Received: from 1cust46.tnt3.irving2.tx.da.uu.net (HELO 1Cust46.tnt3.irving2.tx.da.uu.net??63.24.178.46?) (63.24.178.46) by sorc3r3r.org with SMTP; 3 Feb 2001 18:32:59 -0000 Received: from mail.centrahealth.com by 1Cust46.tnt3.irving2.tx.da.uu.net with ESMTP; Sat, 03 Feb 2001 12:30:14 -0600 Message-ID: <0000791a7f3a$00007f90$00003fff@mail.centrahealth.com> To: Subject: Brand New E-Mail pager for FR-EE! 16383 Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2001 12:30:13 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Reply-To: bigjoe@japan.com Sender: owner-ietf-weird@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: PAGING AMERICA is going to give you absolutely Free the Brand new Motorola Accessmate E-Mail display pager. This is the top of the line PCS technology pager made today. This side viewable display pager has a retail value of $189.00and comes with its own e-mail address so you can receive your e-mails as well as alpha-numeric and numeric messages instantly where ever you are. Your new e-mail pager has features like 50,000 character memory, message time stamping, automatic garbled message correction, beeps or vibrates, incandescent backlight, saved message folder, a unique never out of range feature that allows your pager to retrieve messages sent earlier when your pager was out of range or turned completely off. You can also receive weather, news and sports .The Motorola e-mail pager is very small and uses only a single double A battery. All we ask before we ship you your Free pager is for you to allow us to provide the airtime for you. There is no long term contract or credit check. Airtime is month to month and can be cancelled at any time. This pager will comes pre-programmed with its own e-mail address as well as a local telephone number to receive numeric pages. This pager comes with a complete 30 day money back guarantee, if after receiving this pager you're not completely happy, send it back and receive a full refund. For immediate delivery call Paging America at toll free at 877-699-8546 Brand New E-Mail pager for FREE! No long term contract No activation fee No big prepayment of airtime No credit check From owner-ietf-weird Sun Feb 4 05:50:24 2001 Received: by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA13110 for ietf-weird-bks; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 05:50:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from www.e-ventures.com.cn ([202.99.16.22]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA13106 for ; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 05:50:22 -0800 (PST) From: b4h443@arabia.com Received: from ns.ispinc.net ([63.36.137.175]) by www.e-ventures.com.cn (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-0U10L2S100V35) with SMTP id cn; Sat, 3 Feb 2001 11:56:18 +0800 Message-ID: <0000411f1b5e$000059b8$000012af@ns.ispinc.net> To: <2ha8xh53iyp@iac.spb.ru> Subject: Brand New E-Mail pager for FR-EE! Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 21:34:42 -0600 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Reply-To: b4h443@arabia.com Sender: owner-ietf-weird@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Brand New E-Mail pager for FREE! No long term contract No activation fee No big prepayment of airtime No credit check PAGING AMERICA is going to give you absolutely Free the Brand new Motorola Accessmate E-Mail display pager. This is the top of the line PCS technology pager made today. This side viewable display pager has a retail value of $189.00and comes with its own e-mail address so you can receive your e-mails as well as alpha-numeric and numeric messages instantly where ever you are. Your new e-mail pager has features like 50,000 character memory, message time stamping, automatic garbled message correction, beeps or vibrates, incandescent backlight, saved message folder, a unique never out of range feature that allows your pager to retrieve messages sent earlier when your pager was out of range or turned completely off. You can also receive weather, news and sports .The Motorola e-mail pager is very small and uses only a single double A battery. All we ask before we ship you your Free pager is for you to allow us to provide the airtime for you. There is no long term contract or credit check. Airtime is month to month and can be cancelled at any time. This pager will comes pre-programmed with its own e-mail address as well as a local telephone number to receive numeric pages. This pager comes with a complete 30 day money back guarantee, if after receiving this pager you're not completely happy, send it back and receive a full refund. For immediate delivery call Paging America at toll free at 877-699-8545 Brand New E-Mail pager for FREE! No long term contract No activation fee No big prepayment of airtime No credit check From owner-ietf-weird Thu Feb 8 01:27:55 2001 Received: by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA21320 for ietf-weird-bks; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 01:27:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.neheim-online.de ([195.127.202.196]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA21312 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 01:27:54 -0800 (PST) From: b4h443@arabia.com Received: from mailhost.telematics.com ([63.44.237.233]) by mail.neheim-online.de (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 635-64257U100L2S100V35) with SMTP id de; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 16:40:50 +0100 Message-ID: <000045784718$00004614$00005c55@mailhost.telematics.com> To: Subject: Brand New E-Mail pager for FR-EE! Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 09:06:01 -0600 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Reply-To: b4h443@arabia.com Sender: owner-ietf-weird@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Brand New E-Mail pager for FREE! No long term contract No activation fee No big prepayment of airtime No credit check PAGING AMERICA is going to give you absolutely Free the Brand new Motorola Accessmate E-Mail display pager. This is the top of the line PCS technology pager made today. This side viewable display pager has a retail value of $189.00and comes with its own e-mail address so you can receive your e-mails as well as alpha-numeric and numeric messages instantly where ever you are. Your new e-mail pager has features like 50,000 character memory, message time stamping, automatic garbled message correction, beeps or vibrates, incandescent backlight, saved message folder, a unique never out of range feature that allows your pager to retrieve messages sent earlier when your pager was out of range or turned completely off. You can also receive weather, news and sports .The Motorola e-mail pager is very small and uses only a single double A battery. All we ask before we ship you your Free pager is for you to allow us to provide the airtime for you. There is no long term contract or credit check. Airtime is month to month and can be cancelled at any time. This pager will comes pre-programmed with its own e-mail address as well as a local telephone number to receive numeric pages. This pager comes with a complete 30 day money back guarantee, if after receiving this pager you're not completely happy, send it back and receive a full refund. For immediate delivery call Paging America at toll free at 877-699-8545 Brand New E-Mail pager for FREE! From owner-ietf-weird Fri Feb 9 12:56:45 2001 Received: by above.proper.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA01956 for ietf-weird-bks; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 12:56:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.tech2.regionet-datentechik.de (mail02v1.regionet-datentechnik.de [194.97.33.182]) by above.proper.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA01935 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 12:56:34 -0800 (PST) From: did342@arabia.com Received: from mailer.ug.eds.com [63.22.233.241] by mail.tech2.regionet-datentechik.de (SMTPD32-6.04) id A47B92140140; Fri, 09 Feb 2001 05:39:23 +0100 Message-ID: <000052682ad6$00006743$00006c62@minniemouse.cemax.com> To: Subject: Brnad New Motorola Email Pager FR-EE 911 Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 21:41:06 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Reply-To: did342@arabia.com Sender: owner-ietf-weird@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: No long term contract
No activation fee
No big prepayment of airtime
No credit check

PAGING AMERICA is going to give you absolutely Free the Brand new Motorol= a
Accessmate E-Mail display pager. This is the top of the line PCS technolo= gy
pager made today. This side viewable display pager has a retail value of<= BR> $189.00and comes with its own e-mail address so you can receive your e-ma= ils
as well as alpha-numeric and numeric messages instantly where ever you are=
Your new e-mail pager has features like 50,000 character memory, message t= ime
stamping, automatic garbled message correction, beeps or vibrates,
incandescent backlight, saved message folder, a unique never out of range<= BR> feature that allows your pager to retrieve messages sent earlier when your=
pager was out of range or turned completely off. You can also receive
weather, news and sports .The Motorola e-mail pager is very small and uses=
only a single double A battery. All we ask before we ship you your Free pa= ger
is for you to allow us to provide the airtime for you. There is no long te= rm
contract or credit check. Airtime is month to month and can be cancelled a= t
any time. This pager will comes pre-programmed with its own e-mail address= as
well as a local telephone number to receive numeric pages. This pager come= s
with a complete 30 day money back guarantee, if after receiving this pager=
you're not completely happy, send it back and receive a full refund.

For immediate delivery call Paging America at toll free at 877-699-8545





From owner-ietf-weird Mon Feb 19 09:30:52 2001 Received: by above.proper.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA12726 for ietf-weird-bks; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 09:30:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.imc.org ([211.219.97.33]) by above.proper.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA12721 for ; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 09:30:51 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <200102191730.JAA12721@above.proper.com> From: Asian.Postcard Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 02:30:27 X-Mailer: Prospect Mailer 2000 To: ietf-weird@imc.org Subject: You can send actual postcard from asia MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-weird@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: If you received an actual postcard from abroad¡¦. How do you feel ? We send it from Seoul Korea to your client in worldwide with a Korea stamp and oriental postcard with your handwritten messages. Your customer will think you are sending it from Korea with traveling, even if you are not there. a) customer's interest - say hello from the mystery world. b) customer's inspiration - your special concerns from abroad. c) unique experience - receiving news from the opposite side of the earth. d) hand-written message - think of them as a valued customer For most companies it means the difference between a sizeable profit margin and just getting by. A successful business requires good communication between the company and the client and the company showing that it cares about its clients. With our personalized postcards you have the opportunity to show that you care about the people who make your business profitable. Many companies have greeting cards that can be received electronically. Our company is not one of those. Even though we realize that we are in the electronic age we relate to how important an 'actual' postcard received at their home or office can be. Our postcards served handwritten so that they can be personable. These messages will relate that you care about their business and think of them as a valued customer. So why wait any longer to let your customers know how you feel about them Visit our website today at http://www.asiancard.com to let them know how important they are to you. Sincerely Jaeson Joe Asian postcard service postman@asiancard.com From owner-ietf-weird Sun Apr 1 01:56:47 2001 Received: by above.proper.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA09462 for ietf-weird-bks; Sun, 1 Apr 2001 01:56:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.triora.ch ([195.141.176.6]) by above.proper.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA09456 for ; Sun, 1 Apr 2001 01:56:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from Perl SendMail Module 2.04 ([216.219.253.240]) by mail.triora.ch (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with SMTP id GB39SO00.D0N; Sun, 1 Apr 2001 03:07:36 +0200 To: "jjaer33@yahoo.com" From: "jjaer33@yahoo.com" Subject: How you can win in Court Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2001 03:07:37 +0200 Message-ID: Sender: owner-ietf-weird@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Oprah, Nightline, Maria Shriver, 48 Hours, 20/20, Playboy, Kiplingers and more have all interviewed this famous Private Investigator. Now, you too can make substantial income using his highly sought- after SECRETS. Thank you for your interest in our training Course! We offer the most extensive training course in "How to Collect Judicial Judgments" available!!! In fact, we created this industry. If you are like many people, you are not even sure what a Judicial Judgment is and why processing Judicial Judgments can earn you very substantial income. When one person or business files suit against another person or business and wins, then winner than has a Judicial Judgment. You are happy you won, but you will soon find out the shocking fact: "Its now up to you to Collect on the Judgment". The court does not require the loser to pay you. The court will not even help you. In fact, employees of the court are forbidden by law from telling you how to collect the judgment. Basically, the winner has a piece of paper. You must trace the loser down, find their assets; their employment, bank accounts, real estate, stocks and bonds, etc. The nations most recognized private investigator will teach how to do it all! Very few people know how to find these assets or what to do when they are found. The result is that millions of Judgments are just sitting in files and being forgotten. This is entirely non-confrontational and requires no special licensing. Right now in the United States there is between 200 and 300 billion dollars of uncollected Judicial Judgments. For every Judgment that is paid, 5 or more Judgments take its place. The income potential is substantial in this profession. Using the techniques taught in this course, people are now working full-time making $96,000.00 to over $200,000.00 per year, Part-time associates are earning between $24,000.00 and $100,000.00 per year. Most choose to work out of their homes, other build sizable organizations. Today, people trained in this business opportunity are processing over 500 million dollars in Judicial Judgments. So, if you've ever dreamed of the financial freedom that owning your own business can provide. Dreamed of an early retirement, this may be the opportunity for you. None of your days will be dull. You will be mentally challenged. This business protects you from corporate downsizing. This business is your ticket to freedom from others telling you what to do. This business lets you control your destiny! Our training has made this happen for many others already, Make it happen for you! If the above sounds interesting to you then its time for you to talk to a real live human being, no cost or obligation on your part. Please call us at 1-720-733-7315, between the hours of 9:00am - 6:00pm Mountain Time, Monday -Friday. Thank you for your time and interest. From owner-ietf-weird Wed May 9 03:53:21 2001 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by above.proper.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA01346 for ietf-weird-bks; Wed, 9 May 2001 03:53:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pavilion (a24b31n80client230.hawaii.rr.com [24.31.80.230]) by above.proper.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA01333 for ; Wed, 9 May 2001 03:53:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <165052001539104513920@pavilion> X-EM-Version: 5, 0, 0, 19 X-EM-Registration: #01B0530810E603002D00 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal From: "Mitchell" To: ietf-weird@imc.org Subject: Business/Employment Opportunity Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 00:45:13 -1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by above.proper.com id DAA01339 Sender: owner-ietf-weird@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Dear Friend: "Making over half million dollars every 4 to 5 months from your home for an investment of only $25 U.S. Dollars expense one time" THANKS TO THE COMPUTER AGE AND THE INTERNET! =============================================== BE A MILLIONAIRE LIKE OTHERS WITHIN A YEAR !! Before you say "Bull" , please read the following. This is the letter you have been hearing about on the news lately. Due to the popularity of this letter on the internet, a national weekly news program recently devoted an entire show to the investigation of this program described below , to see if it really can make people money. The show also investigated whether or not the program was legal. Their findings proved once and for all that there are "absolutely no laws prohibiting the participation in the program and if people can follow the simple instructions, they are bound to make some mega bucks with only $25 out of pocket cost". DUE TO THE RECENT INCREASE OF POPULARITY & RESPECT THIS PROGRAM HAS ATTAINED, IT IS CURRENTLY WORKING BETTER THAN EVER. This is what one had to say: "Thanks to this profitable opportunity. I was approached many times before but each time I passed on it. I am so glad I finally joined just to see what one could expect in return for the minimal effort and money required. To my astonishment, I received total $ 610,470.00 in 21 weeks, with money still coming in". Pam Hedland, Fort Lee, New Jersey. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Here is another testimonial: "This program has been around for a long time but I never believed in it. But one day when I received this again in the mail I decided to gamble my $25 on it. I followed thesimple instructions and walaa ..... 3 weeks later the money started to come in. First month I only made $240.00 but the next 2 months after that I made a total of $290,000.00. So far, in the past 8 months by re-entering the program,I have made over $710,000.00 and I am playing it again. The key to success in this program is to follow the simple steps and NOT change anything ." More testimonials later but first, ****** PRINT THIS NOW FOR YOUR FUTURE REFERENCE ******* $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ If you would like to make at least $500,000 every 4 to 5 months easily and comfortably, please read the following...THEN READ IT AGAIN and AGAIN !!! $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ FOLLOW THE SIMPLE INSTRUCTION BELOW AND YOUR FINANCIAL DREAMS WILL COME TRUE, GUARANTEED! INSTRUCTIONS: **** Order all 5 reports shown on the list below. **** For each report, send $5 CASH, THE NAME & NUMBER OF THE REPORT YOU ARE ORDERING and YOUR E-MAIL ADDRESS to the person whose name appears ON THAT LIST next to the report. MAKE SURE YOUR RETURN ADDRESS IS ON YOUR ENVELOPE TOP LEFT CORNER in case of any mail problems. **** When you place your order, make sure you order each of the 5 reports. You will need all 5 reports so that you can save them on your computer and resell them. YOUR TOTAL COST $5 X 5 = $25.00. **** Within a few days you will receive, via e-mail, each of the 5 reports from these 5 different individuals. Save them on your computer so they will be accessible for you to send to the 1,000's of people who will order them from you. Also make a floppy of these reports and keep it on your desk in case something happen to your computer. ****.IMPORTANT - DO NOT alter the names of the people who are listed next to each report, or their sequence on the list, in any way other than what is instructed below in steps 1 through6 or you will loose out on majority of your profits. Once you understand the way this works, you will also see how it does not work if you change it. Remember, this method has been tested, and if you alter, it will NOT work!!! People have tried to put their friends/relatives names on all five thinking they could get all the money. But it does not work this way. Believe us, we all have tried to be greedy and then nothing happened. So Do Not try to change anything other than what is instructed. Because if you do, it will not work for you. Remember, honesty reaps the reward!!! 1.. After you have ordered all 5 reports, take this advertisement and REMOVE the name & address of the person in REPORT # 5. This person has made it through the cycle and is no doubt counting their fortune. 2.... Move the name & address in REPORT # 4 down TO REPORT # 5. 3.... Move the name & address in REPORT # 3 down TO REPORT # 4. 4.... Move the name & address in REPORT # 2 down TO REPORT # 3. 5.... Move the name & address in REPORT # 1 down TO REPORT # 2 6.... Insert YOUR name & address in the REPORT # 1 Position. PLEASE MAKE SURE you copy every name & address ACCURATELY ! ========================================================= Take this entire letter, with the modified list of names, and save it on your computer. DO NOT MAKE ANY OTHER CHANGES. Save this on a disk as well just in case if you loose any data. To assist you with marketing your business on the internet, the 5 reports you purchase will provide you with invaluable marketing information which includes how to send bulk e-mails legally, where to find thousands of free classified ads and much more. There are 2 Primary methods to get this venture going: METHOD # 1 : BY SENDING BULK E-MAIL LEGALLY ============================================ let's say that you decide to start small, just to see how it goes, and we will assume You and those involved send out only 5,000 e-mails each. Let's also assume that the mailing receive only a0.2% response (the response could be much better but lets just say it is only 0.2% . Also many people will send out hundreds of thousands e-mails instead of only 5,000 each). Continuing with this example, you send out only 5,000 e-mails. With a 0.2% response, that is only 10 orders for report # 1. Those 10 people responded by sending out 5,000 e-mail each for a total of 50,000. Out of those 50,000 e-mails only 0.2% responded with orders. That's = 100 people responded and ordered Report # 2. Those 100 people mail out 5,000 e-mails each for a total of 500,000 e-mails. The 0.2% response to that is 1000 orders for Report # 3. Those 1000 people send out 5,000 e-mails each for a total of 5 million e-mails sent out. The 0.2% response to that is 10,000 orders for Report # 4. Those 10,000 people send out 5,000 e-mails each for a total of 50,000,000 (50 million) e-mails. The 0.2% response to that is 100,000 orders for Report # 5. THAT'S 100,000 ORDERS TIMES $5 EACH = $500,000.00 (half million). Your total income in this example is: 1..... $50 + 2..... $500 + 3..... $5,000 + 4..... $50,000 + 5..... $500,000 ......... Grand Total = $555,550.00 NUMBERS DO NOT LIE. GET A PENCIL & PAPER AND FIGURE OUT THE WORST POSSIBLE RESPONSES AND NO MATTER HOW YOU CALCULATE IT, YOU WILL STILL MAKE A LOT OF MONEY ! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ REMEMBER FRIEND, THIS IS ASSUMING ONLY 10 PEOPLE ORDERING OUT OF 5,000 YOU MAILED TO. Dare to think for a moment what would happen if everyone, or half or even one 4th of those people mailed 100,000 e-mails each or more? There are over 250 million people on the internet worldwide and counting. Believe me, many people will do just that, and more! METHOD # 2 : BY PLACING FREE ADS ON THE INTERNET =================================================== Advertising on the net is very very inexpensive and there are hundreds of FREE places to advertise. Placing a lot of free adson the internet will easily get a larger response. We strongly suggest you start with Method # 1 and add METHOD # 2 as you go along. For every $5 you receive, all you must do is e-mail them the Report they ordered. That's it . Always provide same day service on all orders. This will guarantee that the e-mail they send out, with your name and address on it, will be prompt because they can not advertise until they receive the report. _____________________ AVAILABLE REPORTS_____________________ ORDER EACH REPORT BY ITS NUMBER & NAME ONLY. Notes: Always send $5 cash (U.S. CURRENCY) for each Report. Checks NOT accepted. Make sure the cash is concealed by wrapping it in at least 2 sheets of paper. On one of those sheets of paper, Write the NUMBER & the NAME of the Report you are ordering, YOUR E-MAIL ADDRESS and your name and postal address. PLACE YOUR ORDER FOR THESE REPORTS NOW : ============================================== REPORT #1, "The Insider's Guide to Sending Bulk E-mail on the Internet" ORDER REPORT #1 FROM: G. Donaldson P.O. Box 25884 Honolulu, Hawaii 96825-0884 don't forget to provide a permanent e-mail address in clear writing (better typed) to receive the reports. We had problems in delivery e-mails before!!! ============================================== REPORT #2 "The Insider's Guide to Advertising for Free on the Internet" ORDER REPORT #2 FROM: Vijay Paul C-291, Second Floor Defence Colony New Delhi - 110024 INDIA ============================================== REPORT #3 "The Secrets to Multilevel Marketing on the Internet" ORDER REPORT #3 FROM: JD P.O.Box 1114 Des Plaines, IL 60017 USA ============================================== REPORT #4 "How to become a Millionaire utilizing the Power of Multilevel Marketing and the Internet" ORDER REPORT #4 FROM: J Santi 833 Walter Ave Des Plaines, IL 60016 USA ============================================== REPORT #5 "How to SEND 1,000,000 e-mails for FREE" ORDER REPORT #5 FROM: Elaine Rix 138 Dundas Street, West, #243 Toronto, Ontario Canada M5G 1C3 ============================================== There are currently more than 250,000,000 people online worldwide! $$$$$$$$$ YOUR SUCCESS GUIDELINES $$$$$$$$$$$ Follow these guidelines to guarantee your success: If you do not receive at least 10 orders for Report #1 within 2 weeks, continue sending e-mails until you do. After you have received 10 orders, 2 to 3 weeks after that you should receive 100 orders or more for REPORT # 2. If you did not, continue advertising or sending e-mails until you do. Once you have received 100 or more orders for Report # 2, YOU CAN RELAX, because the system is already working for you , and the cash will continue to roll in ! THIS IS IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER : Every time your name is moved down on the list, you are placed in front of a different report. You can KEEP TRACK of your PROGRESS by watching which report people are ordering from you. IF YOU WANT TO GENERATE MORE INCOME SEND ANOTHER BATCH OF E-MAILS AND START THE WHOLE PROCESS AGAIN. There is NO LIMIT to the income you can generate from this business !!! ____________________________________________________ FOLLOWING IS A NOTE FROM THE ORIGINATOR OF THIS PROGRAM: You have just received information that can give you financial freedom for the rest of your life, with NO RISK and JUST A LITTLE BIT OF EFFORT. You can make more money in the next few weeks and months than you have ever imagined. Follow the program EXACTLY AS INSTRUCTED. Do Not change it in any way. It works exceedingly well as it is now. Remember to e-mail a copy of this exciting report after you have put your name and address in Report #1 and moved others to #2...........# 5 as instructed above. One of the people you send this to may send out 100,000 or more e-mails and your name will be on everyone of them. Remember though, the more you send out the more potential customers you will reach. So my friend, I have given you the ideas, information, materials and opportunity to become financially independent. IT IS UP TO YOU NOW ! ************** MORE TESTIMONIALS **************** "My name is Mitchell. My wife , Jody and I live in Chicago. I am an accountant with a major U.S. Corporation and I make pretty good money. When I received this program I grumbled to Jody about receiving ''junk mail''. I made fun of the whole thing, spouting my knowledge of the population and percentages involved. I ''knew'' it wouldn't work. Jody totally ignored my supposed intelligence and few days later she jumped in with both feet. I made merciless fun of her, and was ready to lay the old ''I told you so'' on her when the thing didn'twork. Well, the laugh was on me! Within 3 weeks she had received 50 responses. Within the next 45 days she had received a total of $ 147,200.00 all cash! I was shocked. I have joined Jody in her ''hobby''." Mitchell Wolf, Chicago, Illinois ------------------------------------------------------------ "Not being the gambling type, it took me several weeks to make up my mind to participate in this plan. But conservative that I am, I decided that the initial investment was so little that there was just no way that I wouldn't get enough orders to at least get my money back. I was surprised when I found my medium size post office box crammed with orders. I made $319,210.00 in the first 12 weeks. The nice thing about this deal is that it does not matter where people live. There simply isn't a better investment with a faster return and so big." Dan Sondstrom, Alberta, Canada ----------------------------------------------------------- "I had received this program before. I deleted it, but later I wondered if I should have given it a try. Of course, I had no idea who to contact to get another copy, so I had to wait until I was e-mailed again by someone else.........11 months passed then it luckily came again...... I did not delete this one! I made more than $490,000 on my first try and all the money came within 22 weeks". Susan De Suza, New York, N.Y. ---------------------------------------------------- "It really is a great opportunity to make relatively easy money with little cost to you. I followed the simple instructions carefully and within 10 days the money started to come in. My first month I made $ 20,560.00 and by the end of third month my total cash count was $ 362,840.00. Life is beautiful, Thanx to internet". Fred Dellaca, Westport, New Zealand ------------------------------------------------------------ ORDER YOUR REPORTS TODAY AND GET STARTED ON YOUR ROAD TO FINANCIAL FREEDOM ! ======================================================= If you have any questions of the legality of this program, contact the Office of Associate Director for Marketing Practices, Federal Trade Commission, Bureau of Consumer Protection, Washington, D.C. Under Bill s.1618 TITLE III passed by the 105th US Congress this letter cannot be considered spam as long as the sender includes contact information and a method of removal. This is one time e-mail transmission. No request for removal is necessary. ------------------------------------------------------------ This message is sent in compliance of the new email Bill HR 1910. Under Bill HR 1910 passed by the 106th US Congress on May 24, 1999, this message cannot be considered Spam as long as we include the way to be removed. Per Section HR 1910, Please type "REMOVE" in the subject line and reply to this email. All removal requests are handled personally an immediately once received.